Nostr Web Client

Most nodes don’t want to open channels that small and will have restrictions on channel sizes. I’d recommend joining a telegram group such as Nodestrich to see if you can find a willing participant.

Hmm, yeah. One node I came across had a 2M minimum. Gotta read up on that a bit more.

Yes, take a look on www.lightningnetwork.plus and you will see minimums all over the place. The smallest I see is 100,000 sats and it has a spot open. But I expect it has a channel count restriction so if you don’t have any channels, you want meet their requirements.

I’ll check it out. Thanks. 🤙

LN⚡Server 1y ago

We usually recommend a minimum capacity of 2 million sats. The smaller the channel, the harder it is to break even profitability wise.

Check our web app for our prices if you're interested as we are, by far, the most affordable LSP on the net.

You’re the node I was looking into actually. 😎

I want to support you but I’m not sure if a 2M channel makes sense for me right now. I just want one to receive (if that’s even a thing). I don’t think I want to be public and/or routing.

Great web app btw. 🤙

It makes sense especially if you want to receive. To receive you need inbound liquidity on the channel, if you open a (unbalanced) channel yourself you have outbound liquidity and can't receive anything before you sent something out first.

Is there a way to open an unbalanced channel and then just get inbound liquidity by sending the sats to myself.

Just had another thought. I’m waiting on another Core Lightning node of mine to sync. Once it’s done, I can just open a channel to myself between the two nodes right?

Yes and yes.

Sending sats to themselves is basically what people do when they "rebalance" channels (and not loop/swap out/in sats from off- to on-chain, or Liquid).

Opening a channel to your 2nd node does only connect your 2 nodes, if none of them has any other channels, you're in the same position as before.

Ah yes. That makes sense. Thanks for explaining. 🤙

LN⚡Server 1y ago

We offer incoming liquidity (for receiving payments). However, no matter the capacity of the channel, receiving will turn into sending with enough time and after a number of transactions and vice-versa.

The sats in any channel move from side to side of the channel. Sats on your side of the channel can only be sent. Sats on your peer's end can only be received.

After receiving sats (they are now on your side of the channel) they can only be sent.

After sending sats (they are now on your peer's side of the channel) they can only be used to receive.

Yes it is difficult to understand.

Don't worry if you think you don't need this much capacity (2m). Just know that we're always ready to help you if and when you need us.

Learn the basics and ask us whatever questions you may have.

Thank you for the kind words 🤗

So, on one hand you say "the bigger the better", on the other hand buying your channels is more expensive, the bigger they get. Like, for 3months 2x2m channels are 10k sats, but 1x4m channel is 15k, 50%+ and it gets worse the bigger the channel is.

I'm not complaining, the prices still look good, I was just wondering why that is, because in my experience it is cheaper to open just one channel, even if you batch-open the 2 and the needed funds are the same in both cases.

What am I missing?

LN⚡Server 1y ago

Hi lassdas!

It's your right to be curious and to seek answers! So here they are:

Regardless of the capacity being ordered, on-chain fees are more or less the same.

The reasons behind our pricing structure is that

A) Funds that get used to open channels with will be locked away from us for the life of the channel

B) Funds that get used to open channels with are at a MUCH HIGHER risk than when stored in our cold storages

The bigger the amounts of funds used, the bigger the risk is on us. That's why you see our prices increasing sharply with bigger capacities.

Additionally, as far as we know, we're the only LSP to offer spending capacities with every channel.

However, we are still MUCH cheaper than other LSPs. Check out their prices compared to ours.

If you have any more questions, please don't hesitate to ask 🤗

I get that (A+B), but the funds-at-risk are the same in both described situations!

To open 2x2m channels you need 4m funds and I pay you 10k sats,

to open 1x4m channel you need 4m funds and I pay you 15k sats.

The on-chain fees are obviously higher on the 2x2m channels option, yet it is cheaper for me to buy them instead of 1x4m.

That's what doesn't make sense to me.

And yes, you are cheaper then other LSPs, at least for the "smaller" channels, comparing 10m-channel prices there's others cheaper than you and only because your 10m channels are twice the price of 5x2m channels. I said it gets worse, the bigger the channel is.

Hey nostr:npub15ypxpg429uyjmp0zczuza902chuvvr4pn35wfzv8rx6cej4z8clq6jmpcx if you don’t have any luck finding a channel partner, let me know. I’d be willing to accept a channel from you if you bump it to 100k sats. Once open, I’d rebalance it and you should be able to receive funds from Ocean. Since you were only trying to open 21k, I’m assuming you’re looking at periodic payments. 50k equally balanced would be over twice what you originally planned for and should work fine for what you’re planning to do.

Appreciate that Chriso. I sent some sats to my other node that is still syncing so maybe I’ll consolidate when it’s done and hit you up. I’ll send you a DM if I decide to move forward. Might have some additional questions.

Or maybe we can try 0xchat? I see you have an npub.cash address so maybe you’ve tried it out.

Sounds good, I’ve never used 0xchat but feel free to DM me if you decide to move forward.