I don’t like people who presume to have insight into things unknowable. None know Gods mind. All we know is the heart and the five senses he gave us.
Discussion
Why do you presume to know that the mind of God is completely unknowable?
Because all world religions fundamentally contradict not only each other but more importantly physics which is self evidently the language by which God imposes limits on us. If you seek God you’re more likely to catch glimpses beyond the edges of known science than you are to find him in heavily censored literature handed down through generations of fallible humans. I don’t think it’s possible for humans to hold at once even the rules of physics, much less the heart of God (his why).
God is infinite and we’ll never grasp Him entirely. But that doesn’t mean we can’t know anything about Him. Christianity rests on the claim that God chose to reveal Himself, not through speculation, but through specific events, words, and a person. Revelation is partial, not because it’s censored, but because we are finite.
As for contradictions between religions, that’s precisely why not all can be true. But it doesn’t follow that none are. The presence of counterfeits doesn’t prove there’s no real thing, just that we need a way to measure truth beyond human projection.
To call God’s word “heavily censored” assumes it was entirely man made and manipulated. But if revelation began with God, then the question isn’t whether humans shaped it, it’s whether truth can survive human hands. The Christian claim is that it can, and has.
I respect the heck out of this position but ultimately It’s the last paragraph that I disagree with. I’ve tried to be Christian, but I can’t see around it.
There are plenty of people who try to be Christian in hell.
Instead just get down on your knees and pray, read the Bible, understand the sin sacrifice and why Jesus was the last sin sacrifice. Jesus is alive and well and is here now in this conversation.
I appreciate your honesty. You are raising a real tension, how can we trust something passed through human hands without assuming it has been distorted beyond use?
But this touches a deeper point, one that challenges rationalism itself. If you fully commit to the idea that nothing is trustworthy unless it can be logically deduced or empirically verified, then you also have to question your belief in the past, the existence of other minds, and even the reliability of your own perception.
You cannot prove any of these things through pure reason, yet no one lives as if they are unknowable. We trust them because we believe our cognitive faculties are designed to grasp reality, even if imperfectly. That is why thinkers like Alvin Plantinga argue that belief in God can be properly basic, rational, warranted, and grounded in experience, much like our trust in memory or our perception of an external world.
Christianity does not reject reason. It simply refuses to confine truth to what human reason can contain. If God is real, infinite, and personal, then revelation, not deduction, would be the most fitting way for Him to be known. And the question is not whether humans are fallible, they are, but whether God is powerful enough to ensure that what He most wants us to know is preserved.
So the Christian claim is not that we figured God out, but that He made Himself known and ensured that knowledge could endure through flawed people. That is not naive. It is coherent, if you accept that reason has limits.
We all live by faith in something. The real question is whether your framework can support the weight of the trust you already place, in your thoughts, your memory, and your relationships. If those are not irrational, then perhaps faith in a revealing God is not either.
TBH it comes across like you don’t understand what the implications of having a “saving faith” are (unless you have bought into predestination). It also reads like an AI wrote this (apologies and props if original).
What do you mean, the implications of having a saving faith?
I don't see how this is about predestination. The argument I am trying to articulate comes from the book warranted Christian Belief. The argument is basically if our minds are the product of survival of the fittest there is no reason to believe they can grasp truth, but if we are God's creatures it is reasonable to think he made our minds to grasp truth.
I wrote the reply and used AI to format it clearly.
We do know God's mind. It's very clear and it's in the Bible. God has not hidden himself at all. Furthermore we have a direct relationship with the LORD through Jesus Christ.
Calvin was very well informed.
This is a self defeating statement. You would have to know in order for you to say that none know.
How do you figure? All I have to know is that for me, God is unknownable and then I would have to believe that no other human has supernatural abilities to know what I can’t know. None of this denies the existence of God, in fact for me, my highest spiritual attainments so far have all been wonderful and awe at the mysteries of God.
The whole Bible is a testimony of man speaking with God. Read it. Don't believe the academic nonsense that compares religions. All religions are of Babylon origin. They are apostasy. Only one way and that is through Jesus Christ who is the WORD of God.
Exo 3:13-15 KJV “And Moses said unto God, Behold, when I come unto the children of Israel, and shall say unto them, The God of your fathers hath sent me unto you; and they shall say to me, What is his name? what shall I say unto them?
14. And God said unto Moses, I AM THAT I AM: and he said, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, I AM hath sent me unto you.
15. And God said moreover unto Moses, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, The LORD God of your fathers, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob, hath sent me unto you: this is my name for ever, and this is my memorial unto all generations.”
Shared using AndBible: Bible Study. (https://andbible.github.io)
I am happy for people who find a connection to God in the Bible. I think any pursuit of the unknown is admirable. But the idea that a book written by human hands is the word of God is circular logic. I have tried and tried to come to a different conclusion. I’ve read the Bible, been to church talked to everyday Christians and theologians. Frankly it would be far more comfortable to say “I am saved because I believe” than it is to sit in the discomfort of “I don’t know what any this is, what it means or what happens to people when they die, but it sure is beautiful and I sure am happy and grateful for the opportunity to experience it.”