If it was so then that should exist in communist theory. Also as i said before who voluntered for capitalism? Moreover the same can be said from the communist side. They were hunting them. Were they not under a barrel of a gun? How many millions died because of capitalist profits?
Communism and capitalism are just the sides of the same shitcoin
you didn't volunteer to be part of a society, and a society has a market, you can't opt out of being part of society, however, if society is accepting tyranny you are obliged by God to resist it, and you don't even need to believe in God to understand this, because human authority is always subordinate to the laws of nature, which is what I mean when i say God if you don't like that word
communism is trying to sell you the idea that you can opt out of the market and let Big Brother tell you everything and that nothing is your property and all liability goes to the state, it's literally just a synonym for totalitarianism,, absolute rule over all of our lives
in no way whatsoever does freedom come into the equation, or privacy, under communism you are supposed to just submit to everyone with a badge issued by the state
Yeah ok, so no big difference from capitalism. The only difference is who owns the property.
ok, so if you don't believe in property what gives you the right to own a computer or a phone and express your opinion? whose body is that? you don't think it's yours?
by whose authority is the claim of ownership of your body?
what makes you think that a market economy means you don't own yourself?
do you not want to own yourself?
your head is full of bullshit mate
I had to be a communist to nake these questions to me you know... You are talking to a person that exists in fantasy while speaking with me
You don't have to volunteer for capitalism. You are totally free to do nothing and die. What you don't get to do is force me to do the same or keep you alive.
Then why communists were hunted?
Again the same can be told from the communist side.
Because they shot people who didn't want to be slaves. Why the fuck wouldn't that cause a war with people who refuse to go along? I'm not going to do it. By contrast, I will not shoot you for choosing to starve to death. Be my guest. Don't work. But I will if you try to force me to into slavery. That's the difference. I'm more than happy to let you and the communists voluntarily be communists together. But communism can't exist when people can just choose to leave. That's not communism. It's never voluntary. It will fail if it is and it will fail if it isn't. That's the whole debate here. It's a trash idea and I've said all I have to say on the matter.
They shot people who didn't want to be slaves and that is why for example communists were hunted in USA (didn't even say Chile)? What are you talking about?
Capitalist history is full of forced exploitation. And we still talk about freedom of choice?
And it's kind of hilarious that a capitalist system leaves you free to start a commune with other people who want to be slaves (communism doesn't). You just have to own the property and can't force the rest of us to be slaves when your utopia fails. So go out and do it right. Show us all how it's done perfectly.
Everything in true capitalism is voluntary. Of course there are no real capitalistic societies today.
The whole point of capitalism is voluntarism. You socialize with who you wish. You do business with who you wish. You individually negotiate and only transact if the transaction is agreeable to both parties. In capitalism, nobody can force anyone else to do or not do something they don't want other than everyone having to keep their word and fulfill their promises when an agreement is made.
Ok. So that is in theory. Like the fairy tail that markets can regulate themshelves. Like in there is no real communism applied to any country yet and like Lenin said that that the state will vanish and give its place to a classless society without poverty etc. He forgot to tell us how the priviledged class in the bureaucratic state will give its place to equality 😀. In theory capitalism and communism sound good, but in practice things are different.
Tale not tail 😂
The US used to be very close to a true capitalistic society, that is why the US became so successful. Then those in power started putting in regulations, making the system less and less capitalistic, which reduced the wealth, prosperity, and freedom in the US. Now there is almost no resemblance with capitalism.
One thing people don't like about capitalism is that although everyone has equal opportunity, some people will make more of that opportunity, so people don't have equal outcomes. Some people work harder. Some people have more game changing ideas. Some people have better skills or intelligence. At the same time, people in general do so much better than all other economic systems.
Because capitalism is the most prosperous system, it allows those who are successful to help those who are hurting, especially those who are hurting through no fault of their own, i.e. health problems, learning disabilities, disaster, etc. When a person gives out of their own personal generosity, they feel good about helping. When a person is helped by another out care, the receiver is grateful for what they received. Everyone benefits. When government forcefully takes from those who worked for it those people resent the theft and when they give it to those in need the recipients feel entitled and have no gratefulness that someone worked to support them. Everyone resents the other and there is division. All of this also doesn't count the massive waste caused by the bureaucracy that maintains the taxing and the disbursement. Therefore the government ends up taking much of what could benefit the other two parties.
Most countries start out capitalistic because they're sort of empty and there's lots or opportunity and work to do. But if they're successful, then they attract more and more people and sort of fill up and opportunity declines, and you start having to adjust.
Germany in the Wirtschaftswunder, after WWII, was also a quite economically-liberal place, but economies burn out, just like governments do.
Also, meritocracy eventually peters out, as more and more of the best stay at the top and the structure ossifies.
Usually need currency reform or a big war, to get restarted. Ukraine will be the new Wild West, I suppose. Like East Germany was and then Eastern Europe was. It's a cycle.
I think most Americans don't realize that the places they think of as socialist are just slightly ahead of them, in the same economic/governmental cycle. We all had a Settler/Pioneer Phase, too.
Prime example is Australia, Hong Kong, or Argentina.
80 years ago, this village was missing a third of the pre-war population and consisted mostly of starving children and rubble, and now every two-room shack sells for half a mil. Just had to stay here, for one or two generations, in the same house, and not drink away the milk money, and you ended up winning.
I had seen a german documentary about the what you call wirtschaftswunder. The narrative was different... It was saying that you were lucky there was the war in Korea and you had tools left because of world war two to provide weapons, also some other things. Maybe i can find that documentary. Are you interested? (maybe i cannot find it though...)
Also i think east Germans seem not so happy eventually. In fact they complain for exploitation i heard.
Ludwig Erhard was Kanzler. That was the main thing, as he was a classical liberal and removed price controls. Argentina is trying some of his tricks, at the moment, and they're working, exactly as predicted.
I am confused about Argentina. I am reading contradicting reports. So far i think that overall the tricks are working to a point, something i was expecting myself also, but what comes next might not be as these tricks intend. We'll see... Also i don't have so good sources for this so far 🤷.
I'm interested, but I have no idea when I would find the time to watch it.
I found it!!! Didn't expect to find it tbh.
Thanks!
And some people having wealthier parents…
Yeah, the key to winning at capitalism is being born into and/or marrying into the right family, fr.
The USA had made a remarkable beginning with Linkoln, that still echoes till today even though not loud anymore, but only after the Russians saved them with their ships in 1863 😀.
I don't know if people in capitalism have equal opportunity even in theory, but even so, when we see big the differences to outcomes, that is not because people individually (i emphasize individually) work harder or having gaming change ideas or better skills and intelligence. These big differences come from theft, corruption etc or luck. Unless we believe that for example Elon Musk works so hard etc. No one complained because someone who worked harder has something more (i think). About the rest, similar things can be heared by a communist "social institution will provide healthcare, no one will be homeless" etc.
When we put all that to the test, other factors pollute the soup 😀.
Btw i think that because you are a nice person (i believe this), you try to project this to your ideas and capitalism. It is you that are good, not capitalism (or communism).
