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Any endeavor is incentivezed to create their own money. Doesn't matter who it is. Everyone wants more than they have. That's human nature.

BlueDuckBTC 9mo ago

Unfortunately that is incorrect, not all endeavors/people wish to create/print their own money. It is also incorrect to assume that “everyone “ wants more than they have or need. However, greed is a characteristic in humans that can be throttled, present, or close to absent. If you’re are making the case for capitalism with the slogan “We are all greedy humans.”, I would attempt to market it differently.

That being said, you have not addressed the facts first presented about the nature of capitalism and where we are today.

I can tell that you definitely support collective bargaining, and would like your thoughts on it.

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Discussion

OceanSlim 9mo ago

I support people's right to do whatever they want with their property. If that means spending it on lobbying, that's their choice. That doesn't mean I don't see problems with the current entanglement of government and private corporations. Any system with a central bank will have these problems. The only way to fix it is seperateing money from state. The economic system of capitalism is the most just one we have.

BlueDuckBTC 9mo ago

Quick question, you think that separating money and state will eradicate wealth inequality altogether?

OceanSlim 9mo ago

Eventually yes. That doesn't mean there won't be poor people and rich people. There will always be a heirachy of wealth. But without money printing that devide would be based on their actual contributions and not who holds more assets.

BlueDuckBTC 9mo ago

I think this unfortunately disregarding what we both agree is a human trait and flaw of some, greed.

OceanSlim 9mo ago

Greed doesn't make you more money. In a hard money standard it will potentially ruin you.

BlueDuckBTC 9mo ago

Potentially, yes, automatically, no. However, we have historical data within a system of hard money where the capital still centralizes. So you would need to address the inconvenient facts.

OceanSlim 9mo ago

We've never had decentralized money. Hard money historically centralized because of its physicality. You know that... Bitcoins distribution has always trended to more smaller holders and don't the opposite of centralizing. How do you address that fact?

BlueDuckBTC 9mo ago

Address what? Your speculation that a new technology means capitalism will deter greed and centralization of capital?

OceanSlim 9mo ago

Your obsessed with capitalism having a role. Capitalism doesn't give a shit. It just means you are entitled to your labor/time/energy. That's it. The only incentive that creates is for the individual to progress. By what means is irrelevant. The means are determined by the incentives of the money. Not the economic system you choose. With hard money, there is no progress without proof of work.

BlueDuckBTC 9mo ago

Obsessed, no, but I don’t blindly ignore facts and history. I know capitalism doesn’t give a shit, that’s what I’m conveying to you. “By what means is irrelevant “ wow, you hung that piñata out there.

OceanSlim 9mo ago

The fact that Bitcoin is more distributed over time, not less.

BlueDuckBTC 9mo ago

Has Saylor aquired more Bitcoin over time or less? Is the U.S. trying to acquire more bitcoin or less?

OceanSlim 9mo ago

They want more. Everyone wants more. What's your point? That doesn't make the pie any bigger. We all still have the same amount of Bitcoins to buy. I want more, you want more. New people will want some. As price goes up, large holders take profit. Those coins make their way to new hodlers. Happens every cycle. So utxo count grows.

BlueDuckBTC 9mo ago

Oh, I thought it gets more distributed with time. So, one day everyone will have equal amounts of bitcoin. That seems off but if you say so.

OceanSlim 9mo ago

Well... I mean there will always be exceptional humans and mediocre humans. So there will always be a gap based on ability. The problem now is mediocre humans can make profit without proof of work by rent seeking. That's causing regression.

BlueDuckBTC 9mo ago

Yes, rent seeking behavior is abhorrent. If you break down the psychology of rent seeking behavior, you may find overlap in other areas. You think you can’t “rent seek” with labor? Could I use bitcoin for “rent seeking” behavior?

OceanSlim 9mo ago

Rent seeking is not as profitable as proof or work on a hard money system. Incentive is to build, not seek rent.

BlueDuckBTC 9mo ago

That makes no sense but it was a pleasure conversing with you.

OceanSlim 9mo ago

Hard to make money renting property when it doesn't have a 70% monetary premium attached to its assets price... Property taxes, maintenance, bills... It's a huge liability as it can be easily confiscated. It's not portable at all. All a leaking faucet for your money. The only reason real estate is so expensive is because it demands a monetary premium because our money can't store any value. On a hard money system real estate will lose its monetary premium since you can store that in the money instead. Rent seeking becomes much harder. You have to build the house if you want profit in this system.

BlueDuckBTC 9mo ago

I’m very familiar with Saylor speeches as well as Jeff Booth.

OceanSlim 9mo ago

Actually wasn't referring to either of those two. I'm not really a huge sailor fan but I don't dislike the guy a ton either. Jeff Booth on the other hand is a great human being.

BlueDuckBTC 9mo ago

Hell, Lyn Alden wrote the book “Broken Money” and she doesn’t even assume what you are implying.

OceanSlim 9mo ago

I'm not implying it, you can look at UTXOs on chain. They're growing, not decreasing. They always grow. They decrease slightly when chain fees are low and some consolidate, but they always grow in number. That means factually Bitcoin supply is becoming more distributed. Not centralizing.

BlueDuckBTC 9mo ago

Well, I would hope so considering global adoption is what, 1 to 3%. We are talking about historical ideologies/facts vs what you want to happen. I get it, I want what you want to…everybody to not have to work and collect money.

OceanSlim 9mo ago

It's not what I want or don't want. It's what's visibly been happening since it's inception. Bullish on our shared end goal.

BlueDuckBTC 9mo ago

lol, by any means necessary!

OceanSlim 9mo ago

You're telling me you don't want more money tomorrow than you do today? Send me some of yours then if you don't want more. Everyone wants more than they have. That's the greed. An economic constant in any system.

BlueDuckBTC 9mo ago

Sure, I need money in our current system to survive, and I do “want” to survive. To imply that is greed, well, I would require your definition of greed.

OceanSlim 9mo ago

You "want" better food tomorrow than you had today. This is human nature. To want progress in your life. What's the point of doing anything if it's not going to benefit you.

Rand 9mo ago

i like to sync 'O'/\/ - natural-pATH*****

BlueDuckBTC 9mo ago

I never said I want “better” food. I do “want” what I “need”. Yes, surviving and helping others is human nature. Progress, yes, but this can be relative. You are confusing “benefit me” at the cost of “what”?

OceanSlim 9mo ago

If you have more, or better capital goods, you have more capital goods to share with those around you as well. More profit means more jobs.

I didn't say you said you want better food. I'm saying you do whether you want to admit it or not.

BlueDuckBTC 9mo ago

A little humorous for you to tell me what I can admit to myself or not. Also ironic considering you assume more profit automatically means more jobs. Seems that you have a romanticized relationship with this capitalistic utopia that doesn’t exist.

OceanSlim 9mo ago

More profit does mean more jobs or better capital goods and deflation. One of the two. Either way more profit is more progress. That's just factual.

BlueDuckBTC 9mo ago

I’m sorry, what does “progress” mean to you and while you’re at it, what did you “progress” mean to…I don’t know Omo 1, a homo sapien that lived approx 233k years ago?

OceanSlim 9mo ago

Progress is just having more today than yesterday. It's the story of mankind.

BlueDuckBTC 9mo ago

More what?

OceanSlim 9mo ago

Just more. More purchase, power, more goods, 1+1 is progress. 1-1 is regress

BlueDuckBTC 9mo ago

More is always better, no matter what. Reminds me of Willy Wonka movie.

OceanSlim 9mo ago

If you want to be silly about it sure... More radiation is not better than less... More of a good thing is always better ... Don't be pedantic.

BlueDuckBTC 9mo ago

My apologies, sometimes I project.