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"But all property rights are derived from the principle that (on the horizontal plane) I own myself and my time--that I am a unique individual with unique volition, unique purpose, and unique wants."

Self-ownership - and the idea of a unique, individual Self - is a #Gnostic premise, which is why #private property rights are inseparable from a Gnostic morality and worldview. This is also why it is fundamentally incompatible with Christianity, where you do not own yourself, your interests do not matter, and you have no right to your determine your own #fate - other than to submit to puppeteering or die, of course.

Ayn Rand misses this too. She is absolutely correct on the #Self being the highest moral entity, but cannot articulate a legitimate "why" due to due her anti-mysticism bias. The "why" is #spiritual.

Self-ownership and the rights derived of it are not permissions or responsibilities given to Selves by some higher power and, therefore, potentially subject to being suspended or taken away at some point. They are intrinsic to the #nature of Selves as emanations of the Alien God. They are properties of self-consciousnesses - which necessarily and inalterably has supremacy over matter. This is why the Self owns the body and not the other way around, which would be a perverse (and demiurgic) assertion.

Objectivism is Secular #Gnosticism. Similar to how Marxism is Secular Catholicism. It is a good look at the premises and logical conclusions of a Gnostic morality and worldview.

freeborn | ἐλεύθερος | 8r0gwg 2y ago 💬 1

This misrepresents my argument and Christian theism as well.

Speaking "on the horizontal plane" means that, in dealings between man and man, God (the highest authority) has given me life and no one else (being of lesser authority than the giver) has the right to take it away. The basis of morality is the moral law of God--which presupposes both individuality as well as private property. The idea of civil rights and liberties are simply the flip side of all the "thou shalt nots" in the 'second table' of the law. This is simply the natural law that is written on our hearts (some call it 'conscience'), and revealed even more clearly in the 10 Commandments. It's precisely because our rights come from a higher authority that no one of lower authority can lawfully take them away.

Yes, "on the vertical plane" all are dependent on God for their very existence (would you claim absolute self-reliance? how are you keeping the sun in its course?), and it is true we have no rights before him--although we can (and do) plead his promises. And, our interests DO matter greatly: Christ came "that we may have life, and have it more abundantly." Psalm 16:11 reads, "In his presence is fullness of joy; at his right hand are pleasures forevermore." Further, classical Protestant teaching is that "The chief and highest end of man is to glorify God *and fully to enjoy him* forever." His glory; our joy.

Gnosticism does not teach the supremacy of each individual self, but of the One primordial Self from whom we all were alienated by becoming individuals in the first place; shards of divinity scattered into the many, and thus they call us to remember that "we together are God" and so we must be One again--by becoming Communist. Rothbard was relentless on this principle, so was Voegelin. (For an excellent survey read Rothbard's Austrian Perspective on the History of Economic Thought--he does not shy away from the crucial part that religion has played. It's free online at Mises.org.) It's a worldview ultimately derived from a monist metaphysic - what Peter Jones has called "Oneism," fundamentally incompatible with the "Twoism" of Christianity: Creator and creation.

Before criticizing Christian theism further, I would urge you to gain a better understanding of it. It is not fatalism, there is no 'puppeteering,' nor could it ever be conflated with gnosticism (or Gnosticism either). Read the Westminster Confession of Faith and the Larger Catechism. You will understand a bit better what we actually believe. Of course, Scripture itself is always the primary source of understanding, and the final arbiter.

But even if you don't understand or agree with our "why" (and yes, it is religious) -- for a civil society to exist, we don't necessarily need to agree on the source of our individual rights, provided we protect them shoulder-to-shoulder against all who would seek to alienate us from them.

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An Alien's Angst 2y ago

atural rights are not natural. They actually are entirely unnatural. They are not written on anyone's hearts, but a few. They are culturally engrained in the minds of many Americans but, to those who have not been raised in this culture, the idea of others having rights to do things they do not like (and live happily ever after) is usually laughable. It is laughable even to you, though you dress it as religious piety. Rather than respect Selves' ownership of their bodies and thereafter, you long for the days they are somehow ceased from living this out under the premise that "God" really owns their existence.

Individualism and Self-determination are denied in this world - ability to live these out is determined either by fate or violence. Wars and, sometimes, individual violence are required to continually reinforce these things ahead of the natural norm, which is group ethic - individuals as members of and owned by an unchosen group. All Christians have done is expand the group to "all humans," replace in-group duty with altruism, and made the group authority "God." But, it's still collectivism - others above the Self - all the way down.

If you belong to a puppetmaster in the sky and it obligates to you to altruism, to a role, to service, or to a life path in any capacity "or else," then your Rights of The Self (or "natural rights" - they are only called this for political reasons) are denied on a horizontal level. If your rights can be denied by the supposed creator of the universe, then you don't have rights. If you believe in "God's law" on earth, then it has historically been a human - horizontal - doing the punishing. And sure, it might not want a human doing the retaliation, but there really isn't a difference between "God" annihilating you and you being killed be a human, or even "God" giving your house away and a human running you out of it.

Lack of Self-determination on the vertical plane is a lack of Self-determination on the horizontal plane which is exactly how that's played out in countless #biblical stories. That's even how it plays out ontologically - if it decides your race, your sex, your faculties, etc..., then it has determined your horizontal trajectory before your life even begins.

Even in your #Earth 2.0, this entity's tastes do not change. This is just where the real #Communism begins. You will work, but it will be for nothing but "the smiles on their faces." You will want for nothing, but that's only because you'll only want to see others "be happy." You will be in your roles, "fellowshiping" the way it wants you to; breeding, chattering, playing in the dirt, and living in huts/cabins rather than doing anything of value. You will not get to create, to design, to order, to manage, or do any of the things that a Self longs for other than in infantile terms. There will be no *real* choice making and no desires for anything but the above. If you do not like this but it still likes you, then you will be lobotomized so that you do like it.

There is only a very limited set of "interests" that are allowed to be pursued or even had here. The flowery promises always have a catch with the #Demiurge.

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"Gnosticism does not teach the supremacy of each individual self, but of the One primordial Self from whom we all were alienated by becoming individuals in the first place; shards of divinity scattered into the many, and thus they call us to remember that "we together are God" and so we must be One again--by becoming Communist."

Wrong.

The #Alien #God - the Primordial Self, as you call it - is the source of Self-Consciousness. We are not alienated by becoming individuals - this is New Age, Catholicized "gnosticism" that you find on reddit. The truth is that the very process of #emanation IS #individuation - or we could even think of it as identification. We are its living "thoughts" or introspections identified. This is made very clear in the #Gnostic cosmogonies.

We are Selves purposely individuated out of the Alien God - Self-consciousness begetting Self-consciousnesses.

Think of it like a being looking in the #mirror, only this kind of is entity is so full of is-ness and potentiality, that it's reflection comes alive on the opposite side. The two beings then engage, exploring the depths of themSelf and uncovering new facets and angles in the living reflections they generate thereafter...

That is the relationship between the Alien God - this potentiality pit - and #Barbelo. All of the other emanations come from the Barbelo ideating and requesting to have these different angles/images of the Alien God (which are self-conscious by inherited nature) reflected over. Not one is to be suppressed. All are to be seen and fully expressed in their own right. Yet, none of these emanations are the Alien God in totality.

The #Pleroma is only the totality of the Alien God's reflection. It does NOT include the ineffable entity itself. The mirror is still there and all emanations are on one side, while the Alien God is on the other. One does not become "part" of the #AlienGod, one re-takes its place in the reflection - one is no longer a missing or vandalized piece. That is The #Fullness.

The Fullness (re: emanation/individuation) is to expand in perpetuity, but we will always be alienated from the *Alien* God. Our role is not to "be" it, but to know and reflect it.

Our estrangement from it comes in being localized, cast, and therefore delimited in matter. We have been idolatrized. We cannot fully reflect our unique essence of the Alien God from this position - we cannot fully Self-actualize. Think of the result as a piece of mirror being missing and that place not showing. A scattered spark is no longer a part of the reflection and thus, no longer a part of the full image. It is reflecting something else.

Matter was never an explicit part of the image. Rather than in the Pleroma - or The Fullness, matter is in the Kenoma - or The Deficiency. This is not to say that matter is no part or an impossible reflection of the Alien God, but the manner in which it has come about and is being related to is perverse - it is a distortion at best.

I have no criticism against the existence of a civil society or private property rights. I am against perpetuating of wrong interpretations of Gnosticism.