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> Ex NATO secretary general Stoltenberg says they were arming Ukraine since 2014

so why then US intelligence made prediction in february 2022 that Ukraine will fall in three days?

in fact this is false, this is what western media feed to the public. real help with weapons started around may 2022 and never ever was enough to even have parity. ukranians in worst times had lack of weapons (artillery shells, missiles, anything except small arms) 1 : 10, in best times 1:3.

> Putin was looking for peace till November 2021

so he annexed crimea in 2014 and then started to find peace? weird

nami 11mo ago

I heard a USA general (Milley i think) saying that Ukraine will fall in a week or two, something like that. Russians never said such a thing. The goal was to present the russian military invasion as a failure. In fact, it took USA more than a year to capitulate Iraq where the difference was huge. There was no way to expect that Ukraine to hold less, unless they did the logic thing to do which was surrendering.

First there was the USA backed coup (Nuland was physically in Maidan), then the annexation of Krimea. So, not weird

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zebra 11mo ago

> Russians never said such a thing

wrong, they said tis and they were absolutely sure that it would be an easy walk. that is why they had massive losses at the beginning. and at the beginning, police were traveling with the convoys of military vehicles because they thought they would quickly take over Kyiv and they would only need police to patrol the city.

second - I don't know why, but you in US think it's all your government's fault, when in fact this war has long local roots.

nami 11mo ago

I had searched for that and i did not find such a statement. So i have to ask you again to provide me with that statement.

Also i am greek, not from USA 😀

zebra 11mo ago

I'm not researcher or journalist, I don't collect links. And I'm lazy to search now, but somewhere in the beginning of the war there was leaks from russian military with charts and maps about how they planned to attack and capture Kyiv.

nami 11mo ago

Yeah ok it is understandable that you don't hold links etc. I don't keep most of it either.

About the plans to capture Kiev, as i understand, russians did that move, with the hope that Ukraine will be afraid and surrender, because also that was the logic thing to do. We can be sure that russians did not had plans to besiege Kiev, because of the difference with Mariupol. They wanted to besiege and capture Mariupol and for that reason they used twice the size of army they used in Kiev despite the fact Mariupol is several times smaller than Kiev.

So, there was no statement from the russian side that they will end the war in two weeks, that has been said by a USA general and the west adopted that to present the conflict as a rusdian failure. On the other had thete was a statement by Zelensky that next year ukrainians will go for fishing in Krimea. That was the failure...

zebra 11mo ago

> About the plans to capture Kiev, as i understand, russians did that move, with the hope that Ukraine will be afraid and surrender, because also that was the logic thing to do.

sort of. and putin had a lot of agents inside ukraine who reported that ukraine is "ready" to be captured. of course they lied and just made money from russians.

> So, there was no statement from the russian side that they will end the war in two weeks

of course there was no official statement. Lavrov stil saying that there is no any invasion and that is Ukraine who started the war )

> On the other had thete was a statement by Zelensky that next year ukrainians will go for fishing in Krimea

it was said by Budanov, not Zelensky but ok. During the war you can't rely on sources who involved in war, only independent. and there are lot of them.

that is one that I suggest you to read - https://substack.com/@xxtomcooperxx

nami 11mo ago

Ah yes, there were several russian or russian friendly blogers, youtubers etc who were saying that the conflict will end quickly, but i meant statements from officials.

Lavrov is saying that Ukraine stsrted it, as far as i know, because they started bombing Donetsk again. Do you remember Biden saying that russians will invade at 16 of February? Why this specific date? The answer is that this is when ukrainians started bombing Doneysk again... So Lavrov is kind of right. Kind of... Of course it was a russian invasion in general.

Thanks for the suggestion. Not one of my sources also...

zebra 11mo ago

you know who Girkin is, for example, and who captured Slavyansk in 14? i.e. russia has participated in the occupation of donbass since 14, why it strange if ukraine shelled russian military facilities on its territory? of course, civilian facilities were also affected. russian propaganda constantly talks about the bombing of donbass, but does not say what russian military did there, in ukraine, since 14. try to find video how russian capturing Slavyansk in april 14. I know for sure that it is there.

and russia said it was local rebels ) but somehow they looked like professional marines in full equipment

nami 11mo ago

No doubt there were russians there.

zebra 11mo ago

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FLYlwkqVZbc

april 2014

funny story about this video is that one of the soldiers used strange russian word which no one had knew in ukraine. even though many people talks russian. this word - поребрик, border. later we learn that this word is common in russia, in leningrad region

nami 11mo ago

Yes as i said there is no doubt that there were russians involved there. As expected i should say. Like there is no doubt cia was operating also.

https://www.nytimes.com/2024/02/25/world/europe/cia-ukraine-intelligence-russia-war.html

But which exactly is the point of this?

zebra 11mo ago

read half of the article and can't read any more ) feels like tales for conspiracy lovers.

for example the article says that in ukraine some secret bases have been built along the border to collect secrets data about russia. how exactly? secret special agents can look through binoculars in the direction of russia? I remember that for example just using satellite images the number of soldiers at the wagner base in belarus was calculated.

there is a phrase in the article that CIA and MI6 had full control over ukraine. again this is tales. we know for sure that there were conflicts between Zaluzhny and american generals at the beginning of the war. there were conflicts in 2023 when a counteroffensive was planned, Ukrainians did not agree with american plans on how exactly to counterattack. so there is no full control. it is just such a beautiful scary picture for morons - evil US special forces and ukrainian puppets.

nami 11mo ago

This is from NYT. So... not from russian propaganda etc.

And i don't think thete is a doubt anymore that Ukraine has been used as a proxy against Russia. Is there such a doubt? (the video and the article with Stoltenberg should be enough normally)

zebra 11mo ago

> First there was the USA backed coup (Nuland was physically in Maidan), then the annexation of Krimea

do you know what was original reasons why a several people came out to protest in Kyiv in november 2013?

nami 11mo ago

I have heard that but i don't remember. What was it?

zebra 11mo ago

but this is strange ) you know that Nuland was there but you don't know what was the whole reason for maidan. and with Nuland you probably imply that US somehow paid and organized maidan.

Initial cause for people coming out to protest was that Yanukovich refused to sign preliminary agreement with the EU. this is whole story, I can't go to far here, but this was very very strange, because this meeting with EU was organized specifically for signing this document, but he suddenly refused to sign. why he did that the whole another story, which we, usual people, learned only years after

nami 11mo ago

It's been years since that. I heard that in 2014... The next time i spent time about Ukraine was when i heard that USA was thinking to ban Russia from swift2. I knew that this could easily escalate to ww3, so i follow the situation as close as i can since then, since that effects us. Meanwhile i thought it was globally accepted, even from ukrainians, that the coup had the support of USA. Isn't it? As for entering the eu swamp thing, it is possible that russians put pressure on Yanukovich about that. If so, it was a mistake by russians and they shouldn't intervene on that, if you ask me. Nowdays though, Lavrov says they have no problem if Ukraine enters the eu, but there is a problem with entering NATO.