We cannot communicate with the dead.
I know Catholics are afraid of literature.
Deuteronomy 18:10-12
In all ways that matter to us, Mary is dead. We exist (clutch your pearls for this one) in reality. We cannot see dead people here. You don’t need to ask her to pray for you. Everyone in heaven is constantly praying for you.
Everyone in heaven is alive. Do you think that the mother of Christ, who stood at the foot of His Cross, is in hell? By your logic, why pray at all? "Pray" means make requests "Mother Mary, please pray for us, now snd at the hour of our death." Or "St. Michael the Archangel, defend us in battle."
Jesus told us to ask. Of course He knows. But He commanded us to knock. And it doesn't hurt to ask others to pray for you too. Especially the saints and angels LIVING in heaven, in the presence of the Lord. Especially not His own mother.
Alright genius. Name one person who is actually dead. Is hell death?
I pray because I’m praying to God. Why should I pray to someone I can’t possibly communicate with, asking for them to pray for me?
Why not skip the middleman and pray for myself? Why not take accountability for the fact that I myself am a saint even if I’m imperfect? All sin is equal in the eyes of God. So the “Saints” are all just as wretched as I in the eyes of God, for they *all* betrayed Him just the same.
Maybe Mary never betrayed God, but she was still born of sin. In the eyes of God, she is fundamentally no better than you or I assuming we have faith in Christ. What sets her apart is that she has *perfect faith in Christ from her election*. But that doesn’t mean it’s more effective to pray for her to pray for you, instead of doing it yourself. Christ literally came to intercede — *FOR YOU!*
Yes, hell is eternal death. Heaven is eternal life. Hell is eternal death that never ends, total separation from God's love, that goes on and on. And yes, it is crowded. That is basic Christian theology.
You ask why could anyone else's prayers help you? If you are predestined, how could ANY prayers help you? I don't know, the whole idea of predestination makes no coherent sense to me.
We think of it like this: Christ is King. If you are going to the king to ask for things... You go to his throne to make a request... You see his mother there. Will it help your cause if you show great respect to his mother? Or give her a cold shoulder? Will that be taken as respect by Him or insult? If you ask her to ask Him also to grant your request, would that not help your cause?
Respect to the mother is respect to the Son.
All the saints and angels are alive and in the presence of God. They are there because they were holy enough. Some are more holy than others. Heaven is a hierarchy of holiness. Why not ask the holiest souls possible to pray for you? The ones closest to God. They can hear you if He allows it. Mary is the one who stands closest to Him. Just as she did at the foot of His Cross and when she bore Him in her womb.
By the way, we believe it is blasphemous to say that Jesus was born of an unclean vessel. He protected her from original sin in the moment of her conception. God would not make His human flesh grow out of a sinful body. He chose to create Himself out of a sinless Virgin, in every sense. A sinless virgin in the line of David. What kind of mother do you expect the King of Kings to have?
Ask your priest. I’m no Catholic but I bet he will validate everything I say.
the doctrine of intermediation is uniquely catholic. protestantism was the first step of breaking out of that by disintermediating access to the Book.
strictly speaking, you can pray to anyone, even Satan, and any of the angels and saints.
but worshiping them is forbidden, not because of jealousy (which is absurd, what could He who is All want for that we can give?) but because it's a waste of your time. the founder of judaism's earliest recorded deeds involved precisely the debunking of this idolatry, placing a weapon in the hands of one of the idols and claiming that the idol did it. oh, abraham's daddy was not pleased but he couldn't legitimately rule it out if he was faithful to his dead carved statues.
i hotly dispute the idea that the purpose of Jesus ministry was to implant the idea of intermediating access to God via another man (or apparent man). it was to teach people that they can just go direct, following his lead.
Not quite. Eastern Orthodox and all Christians have always interceded for each other with prayers and asked for intercession, including to saints and angels. It shows faith, for one thing, that the saved are alive in heaven praying for you. Protestants have a lot of exotic ideas now, but that got going in the 1500s.
We are definitly not permitted to pray to the dead. saints and angels only (meaning we know from apostolic authority that they are in heaven). To do otherwise would at least be presumption. Or worse, knowingly trying to communicate with the damned.
Intercession ON REQUEST. Interfering is what all evil people do. Fools gonna be fools but pushing on people is not holy behavior. It's violence.
Why would someone take advice from known liars, anyway?
Anyhow, I see no point in intermediaries. Only fools worship or trust in dead symbols. When it comes to judgement, your credulity is examined too. Trust in anything but God is second to worshiping idols.
