It is good money, and it is fungible. The blockchain doesn’t care. 1 Btc= 1 btc
Discussion
Yeah, but the blockchain doesn't exist in a vaccuum.
If 1 BTC = 1 BTC, why does depositing coinjoin coins at an exchange get your account suspended?
Because 1 BTC != 1 BTC. Every satoshi has a history. That allows you to discriminate between them.
For now it's at exchanges. One day it might be any utxo not known to be associated with an identity cannot be legally accepted by a legal merchant (you know, 99.9% of businesses).
Another day it might be you being unable to open a legal lightning channel without prior permission, and if you do you will be fined for money laundering.
If those seem preposterous to you, just know that some of us have been here for long enough where the idiotic clueless majority swore that exchanges would never block anyone's account because BTC is fungible.
No. Your collective stubborn ignorance has created a financial surveillance system far more insidious than anything that existed before. It's amazing to see that same stubborn ignorance 16 years into the experiment.
The AML/KYC nightmare has only expanded because of this. No need for warrants, no need for suspicion, no need for complicated international arrangements, oh no.
They just put it online forever on "the blockchain". And as long as NGU they don't really care.
Actually it's even worse than that, since most don't even use the blockchain, they use an exchange like a bank thus negating any advantage this technology had in the first place.
It's just incredible, the whole shitshow.
I’m not here to argue but Merchants don’t check your KYC or conjoin status at the door they show you a bitcoin address and you send to them. There is no precedent for merchants being responsible for what bitcoin you can or can’t spend. Not sure how lightning would be stopped either any one can spin up a lightning node and accept bitcoin, it’s open source there is no permission. We can agree to disagree, have a good one!
They don't check it NOW. One day they MIGHT be COMPELLED to. In the same way that exchanges didn't check THEN but do NOW.
And it was PREDICTABLE, because the AGONIZING LACK OF PRIVACY IN BITCOIN all but guaranteed it.
And here we are!
There is plenty of precedent for merchants, just not with bitcoin, YET. Why do you think there are legal limits that merchants can take in cash? To ensure that above a laughably small amount, they can trace it. You really think it will stop there? No, sadly it won't.
And we need tech that DISCOURAGES always-on mass-surveillance, not ENCOURAGES it. It's not just tech that's needed either, social change is needer as well.
As for lightning, reread my post (or don't), it's not that they can stop you from opening a channel, but they surely can FINE you after the fact, because the chain is TRANSPARENT.
Because all data is sitting there, forever, enforcement can be AUTOMATED.
Oh, pseudonymous sats you say, it won't affect you. Maybe. Until one day you make a small mistake. You were in a hurry. Or you needed a bit more than you thought you did. Or you used a public electrum server who just logged your IP and all your addresses and balances. Whichever way. You make a small mistake, and boom, you're rectroactively deanonymized.
Anyway, as you said, let's agree to disagree.
Hey nostr:npub1r5yzptzufjehaduv3du9tlrav4ws9edwuu338s2a06haamc6xlfsf333vz , calm down with those minority of Bitcoiners who have short minds. They are moved by greed. Period.
They don't seem like a minority from where I stand, unfortunately.
Pretty much all the oldschool bitcoiners I know (including myself) value Monero because it complements Bitcoin in a much needed way, but for the moonbois it's a black and white thing and an us-vs-them mentality (they seem unable to grasp that most of us explaining and defending #monero here are bitcoiners too).
This is something I deeply care about (because I don't like the implications of a total surveillance society) and to see the same fallacious arguments spun over and over again does grind my gears somewhat.
I'm just trying to raise awareness about this topic and not let fallacious arguments go unchallenged. Sometimes it can be tiring, but don't worry, everything is calm and good 💪
I completely agree with you. That legend of “BTC Privacy and/or BTC Anonymity” created in the past really is a real pain in the ass (I think 99% of the average people in my country believe that is the truth). Good to know you are calm and good Following you, bro! 😎