14%- 15% of the network has stopped precisely 0 "spam" from getting onto the chain. KNOTS IS NOT A SOLUTION. STOP INSINUATING THAT FILTERS "FIX" ANYTHING. THEY DO NOT. How much evidence do you need? You shouldn't need any at all because it's clearly demonstrable but how long you knots node runners gunna hold on to your opinion? I sense peter schiff levels of "dug in"

Strong Mac Vibes

"I won't change my mind on anything, regardless of the facts that are set out before me. I'm dug in, and I'll never change." - Ronald McDonald

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Not even delayed it or raised the cost? Or possibly dissuaded someone from trying?

Find me evidence that it's done anything. I keep clark moody dash up on a monitor at work all day. I haven't really seen any change in the trends for OP returns or inscriptions. I could be wrong and I really do want someone to give me evidence that it's done anything.

I trust you survey more than I do, which is basically not at all. But surprised no change to anything related to it could be seen. Of course, can't really prove directly someone who would have did not, but a rise in cost or wait times or drop in volume might point to that.

If it's useless why do you even bother to point it out?

My node, my choice. Running Knots

Because I care about the truth. Idc what node you run. I only care that you aren't running it under the delusion that you're somehow helping the network with spam. Because again, I care about the truth.

Zap me 5k and I'll make a op return larger than the limit and pay a normal fee. It'll be put in a block with similar fee weights in short order and I won't go out of band.

You post this l like a gotcha and you don't even realize it's not even true.

What does your individual computers memory have anything to do with what gets in the next block... Nothing...

Why remove it then?

because it's useless code...

So you can put it in the next block via my node? Or just direct with a miner?

via my node.

So you can't via my node or the majority of nodes. >70%.. Why is that I wonder!?

It doesn't matter if 99.9% of nodes run knots. I can always run my own node...

your second point is wrong... again...

So removing the limit in core hasn't increased spam, so knots has worked

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Core has not made a new release yet... 29 is still the current. Removing the limit will not increase spam because the limit never stopped "spam" to begin with.

The limit is still there on all nodes currently by default, yet, I can still make a tx with one beyond the limit...

Why do spammers stay within op return limits then?

Because it's cheaper to stuff the witness with arbitrary data.... You are arguing out of your depth with extreme conviction...

Strong Mac vibes.

Filters buddy.. Filters. You will get there eventually.. Reel in your ego and admit you are wrong here.

no... I just told you why. It's not filters at all. OP_RETURN doesn't get a discount, witness data does. So rather than putting arb data in OP_RETURN, you stuff the witness with it. This makes more unspendable UTXOs (bad for Bitcoin). Removing the limit does not stop this either. I don't have any ego man. I'm just arguing facts and you rebut with arguments that fall flat or don't make any sense.

Dude, you just making yourself look more silly. They spam witness data cos they can't freely spam op return.

Yes... They can. It's more expensive. And not because of filters. It's because witnesses data gets a discount.

You are the one looking more silly sir.

So which is it, cheaper or more expensive? LOL 😄

What are you not understanding... OP RETURN data is more expensive than witness data. Doesn't matter how many bytes...

Well done Sherlock, now you get it.

What do you mean now I get it. I don't think you get it at all. What do you think I just said?

It costs more to spam op return

And why do you think that is?

Filters

Wrong. And I've explained to you why. You just aren't listening.

again... you can make a a tx with less than 1s/vb fee already and always have been able to...

Yes, but most people blocked them with filters.

Yes, they blocked them. On THEIR NODE. They did nothing to prevent it from being mined. They are concensous, non standard transactions.

Non-standard transactions. Right. And not appearing in most peoples mempool. Sort of "filtered"... Keep going...

How are you not understanding that filters only affect your node and not the network.

I do, now imagine 90% of nodes.

Doesn't matter if it's every single node except my own. I can still broadcast it to miners with mine.

You started at 70 now it's at 90? Tell me the magic number where the filter start to "work"

It's because stuffing the witness is cheaper.

Yes because the filter limit

No... Witness data gets a discount on its weight. OP RETURN doesn't. That's not a filter thing, that's not a policy. That's just how Bitcoin works. Filters have nothing to do with it.

The blockchain overwhelmingly reflects the default mempool policies set within Bitcoin Core.

This is an obvious fact.

You are incorrectly attributing the blockchain's transaction patterns to Bitcoin Core's default mempool policies. They think the blockchain 'reflects' these filters because the filters are actively preventing bad transactions from being included.

This is backwards causation. The mempool policies are purely local settings that only affect what transactions your individual node will relay or store in its mempool - they don't control what gets mined into blocks. Miners can set these filters to whatever they want, or ignore them entirely.

The real reason the blockchain resembles the default policy settings is much simpler: most people naturally create valid, reasonable transactions anyway. The blockchain looks 'clean' not because the filters are working to keep it clean, but because there wasn't much junk to filter out in the first place. The filters are largely redundant - they're rejecting transactions that most users wouldn't create anyway.

You have it the wrong way round.

They don't do anything to the network. Prove me wrong.

Where are op return codes >80?

There are very few because they don't make any sense financially. Do you want me to submit one now to prove you wrong send me 5K and I will just like I started this conversation with.

So why remove the limit and configurability if it doesn't matter?

Because it doesn't matter... That's the whole point. We don't need code in the code base that doesn't do anything.

You want to "fix" it, then roll back to 2014 and remove OPRETURN and the Segwit discount. That's a hard fork. It's not happening. Running knots is just a virtue signal, not a solution. It does nothing.

Stops spam. Why you use email spam filters? You still receive spam?

Email is not Bitcoin. I won't entertain the argument. They're not even close.

You won't entertain understanding your own thinking? Understood.

Email is extraordinarily centralized. You want that for Bitcoin?

I run knots which makes it more decentralised. You are running core and allowing them to dictate node settings and policy

What? You can set policy however you want to in core? WTF are you talking about. Every node, no matter what flavor, further decentralizes the network...

You are really confused my guy.

Default settings are important, thats why core wanted to remove the ability to change them. I thought you were in favour of decentralisation?

firstly, They DIDN'T remove them. The default limit was changed to like a million bytes or something. Basically no limit. You can still set a limit just fine with core. Even when 30 comes out.

secondly, if and when they DO remove OP_RETUN limit it's just the OP_Return limit. All other policies remain. policies generally exist to make sure the user doesn't fuck something up and make a bad tx. It's not for making sure the network doesn't get the transactions.

I actually don't run core or knots, but I do run a node. I'll let you guess the flavor. It's one that doesn't have any policy restrictions for anything. I can make whatever transaction I want to with my node.

So you need to run a node without filters to spam Bitcoin. Understood.

I don't spam Bitcoin.

Then stick within 80 limit

Not my node. I want an accurate picture of the mempool when I make a regular transaction.

Majority of noderunners disagree with you. So you won't have an accurate men pool.

Again... Completely out of your depth. The mempool is informed by YOUR NODE not anyone else's...

Your >40 op return will NEVER appear in my mempool. Do you get it yet?

And it will be in mine... Do you get it?

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"Filters don't stop spam, also we need to remove the filter cuz its stopping our spam"

No one has ever uttered the second part of your stupid statement. Filters don't stop spam, also we should remove them. Because they don't do anything. Do I need to have the whole conversation with you too? Or are you dug I'm, regardless of the facts?

Why don't you go upload a jpeg in the op return if filters don't do anything? Oh you don't want to pay Mara exorbitant fees? Oh converting it to fake pubs and chunking it up is too much of a pain in the ass? You're full of shit dude, filters work just fine. Even if you honestly did believe they don't do do anything (you don't your full of shit) why not leave them in if its all the same?

This will take some time to unpack but you are completely wrong in a lot of your assumptions. Firstly, no one puts arbitrary data in OP_RETURN. It's cheaper to stuff the witness data. It's not cheaper because of filters. It's cheaper because that's just how Bitcoin works.

Second, send me 5k sats right now and I'll make a TX with OP_RETURN larger than 80 bytes, I won't go out of band (to mara) because I know how to use a node and I don't have to.

Third, I have no interest in putting jPEgs on Bitcoin. That's dumb. If I were going to put arbitrary data, it would be some text or a message and I would just put it in OP_RETURN because it would be that big of a message.

I'm not "full of shit". I actually know how Bitcoin works and how nodes work. Your filters only affect your node. They have no bearing on what transactions are mined.

If they don't do anything, that is precisely the reason to remove them. Why have code in the code base that doesn't do anything?

Go ahead, send me 5k and I'll make that tx with a standard fee rate and it'll be mined by someone in around 10 minutes after I broadcast it. I've done it before to prove a point. I'll do it again.

I don't run core or knots. I do run a node though.

Get off your altruistic high horse and try listening to people with more technical Bitcoin experience than yourself. Have a little humility. Everyone on your "side" admits they are not technical while anyone with any knowledge of how Bitcoin actually works, are in the camp of removing the useless filters.

I'm happy to change my mind if someone can demonstrate THEIR filters stopping MY tx with an OP return past the default limit. No one can. Because you can't censor a concensous Bitcoin transaction. As it should be.

Omg boomer text wall, yeah dude, congrats you run node, so does everyone else. You describing a way to get around a filter doesn't mean the filter isn't doing anything. That is the giant faulty premise in your logic you are purposely ignoring.

I'm not going around anything. I'm Broadcasting a transaction with my own node to a decentralized network. Clearly you have no interest in learning. You're dug in. Mac vibes.

You can't just counter an argument with "you make long post, you dumb"

You're making yourself look stupid. Argue the facts. You can't because you don't know them and when people tell you, you just say okay boomer and think they must be wrong. Personal bias be damned.

Do you actually want to talk about how filters don't do anything to affect the network? Please tell me how the filters on your node or anyone else's, stops me from broadcasting a tx from my node...

Tell me. You can't because they don't.

Make your point concisely I don't want to read all this verbose shit. Broadcast whatever you want, my node won't necessarily relay it, that's how filters work.

No your node won't. But it doesn't have to. I don't care if your node relays it. Once I broadcast a tx, of it's concensous, it'll get relayes by many. Even if 99% of the network filters, it's still going to go through.

Try broadcasting a dust transaction its consensus valid but 99% of the network is going to block it anyway. There are still some old legacy nodes that don't filter dust. Filters work. Dust is proof

I made a tx like a few months ago with dust, paid 1s per vb and got into the next block. I did this to prove the same fucking point to someone on nostr. Filters don't work. My dust tx proves you wrong.

I would do it again, but I'd rather dig up that tx to show you. I consolidated the dust afterwards because useless UTXOs are no good.

Weird I don't get dust attacked anymore

You don't dust attack a node, you would do it to make a bunch of unspensdable UTXOs which grows the UTXO set and affect the whole network. No one would do that because it's just throwing money away...

Here it is...

https://mempool.space/tx/199e6d98c300546a642803a2ffb849dae7dc7b8f9a0df88163cd9fc99033d3c5?mode=details

100 sats to its own UTXO, 2244sats is a change address.

Paid 156 sats fee.

OK, let's say your right and filters don't stop anything (I remain wildlyskeptical), how about we leave them in just case your wrong. If I'm wrong there's no harm. If your wrong you've just junked up the blockchain with garbage.

They did leave them. Core 30 is not out yet but when it dies come out it will still have all filters. Todd's PR was not merged. Default limit for opreturn will be raised to make it basically unlimited. You can still set your own limit in your bitcoin.conf to whatever you want. Also opreturn is the only filter in question here. All others Policies remain the same by default I believe. Policies and defaults exist for making sure users don't submit unintended transactions. They don't exist to stop anything from being relayed.

What do you think happens when you set your filters on your mempool?

The whole knots exercise was a good demonstration of how easily manipulated some individuals are, ignoring all logic, yet again