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What do you think that means to followers of Christ?

I'm still wrestling with it. A governing authority/ruler does not necessarily mean "the State." I believe God does use human rulers/governors for His own purposes, including administering justice. In this role, they act under His authority and on His behalf, and in this sense could be called God's servants. However, as the apostle Peter wrote , governors are sent out by God "to punish those who do what is evil and to praise those who do what is good" (1 Peter 2:14). This, to me, defines and limits what "government," or rather "governance," is for.

The State, however, is something more than just a ruler/governor, as I see it. The State, with all of it's double-standards of what it is "allowed" to do vs. the individual, and it's claimed monopoly on violence, may actually represent "the Beast(s)" as presented in Scripture (Daniel and Revelation). If this is true, Christians then should be anti-state and not participate in or further the activities of the State. But then, taxes are what feeds the Beast, and Christians are commanded to pay taxes... So perhaps my understanding of the State is faulty.

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Discussion

Neopatriarch 2y ago

I do appreciate the humility of being torn like this, and I think it's appropriate. Like all doctrines they don't exist in a vacuum. If it did Acts 13 might bottleneck believers into being slaves of the State rather than servants of God. Even that isn't without internal conflicts.

I'm at work now, but I'd love to continue a dialog with you in this regard.

Neopatriarch 2y ago

### The King of Israel

Originally, Israel had no king. They didn't always do right, nevertheless that's how God established Israel. When Israel demanded an earthly king, God warned them about what an earthly king would impose upon them.

> 1 Samuel 8:10-18

> So Samuel told all the words of the LORD to the people who were asking for a king from him. He said, “These will be the ways of the king who will reign over you: he will take your sons and appoint them to his chariots and to be his horsemen and to run before his chariots. And he will appoint for himself commanders of thousands and commanders of fifties, and some to plow his ground and to reap his harvest, and to make his implements of war and the equipment of his chariots. He will take your daughters to be perfumers and cooks and bakers. He will take the best of your fields and vineyards and olive orchards and give them to his servants. He will take the tenth of your grain and of your vineyards and give it to his officers and to his servants. He will take your male servants and female servants and the best of your young men and your donkeys, and put them to his work. He will take the tenth of your flocks, and you shall be his slaves. And in that day you will cry out because of your king, whom you have chosen for yourselves, but the LORD will not answer you in that day.”

I think this establishes that a king is a judgement from God. Not a blessing.

Would you agree with that?

Marakesh 𓅦 2y ago

I agree. It can sometimes be a judgment for God to give us what we ask for. That is one of my favorite passages in the Bible and this one is another:

Judges 8:22–23: "Then the Israelites said to Gideon, “Rule over us, you as well as your sons and your grandsons, for you delivered us from the power of Midian.”

23 But Gideon said to them, “I will not rule over you, and my son will not rule over you; the Lord will rule over you.”"

God was Israel's king, and for centuries after the Exodus they had no human ruler. That is what I think is God's idea of the best human government; at least that's the kind of government He gave to Israel when He took them out of Egypt, not a republic or a democracy. When I speak of Christian anarchy (a term I'm loathe to use because it is fraught with such misunderstanding), this is what I mean: no human rulers, but governance under Christ's laws.

Brunswick 2y ago

If our laws and regulatory edicts had to pass the threshold of the two greatest laws, the sum of the government's rules would fit on 10 pages.

Eventually we will return to the rule of God as described in Judges, what the ruling class calls anarchy; it has been foreseen.

Marakesh 𓅦 2y ago

The eventual rule of God that you speak of I think you mean is in the age to come. I hope that in this present age humanity can at least lay aside the iron rule of force and domination that we currently suffer under from human governments, and replace it with Christ's Golden Rule, which would involve voluntary cooperation and mutual service.

Brunswick 2y ago

Yes, I'm referring to the rule under God in the age to come. Its very curious that the end of the bitcoin reward schedule coincides with the end of this age (of pieces). Though there are biblical descriptions of wars and horrors in the interim, its not knowable where we are in relation to this progression, and its not clear what or how economic systems will change and their role in the coming peace. If everything is to be voluntary, its unclear whether technologyy or accounting are necessary to function under such a system. Regardless of how the end goal system may function, its clear now that we require a more perfect monetary system to approach such a utopia.