Replying to Neopatriarch

1 Peter 3:20 because they formerly did not obey, when God’s patience waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was being prepared, in which a few, that is, eight persons, were brought safely through water.

#openTheism

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freeborn | ἐλεύθερος | 8r0gwg 2y ago

Since God has perfect knowledge of creation's future, #OpenTheism is false:

>Isaiah 46:10 KJV — Declaring the end from the beginning, and from ancient times the things that are not yet done, saying, My counsel shall stand, and I will do all my pleasure:

Since Jesus used foreknowledge as a proof for his divinity, #OpenTheism is false:

>John 13:19 KJV — Now I tell you before it come, that, when it is come to pass, ye may believe that I am he.

Since God does not change, #OpenTheism is false:

>Malachi 3:6 KJV — For I am the LORD, I change not; therefore ye sons of Jacob are not consumed.

>James 1:17 KJV — Every good gift and every perfect gift is from above, and cometh down from the Father of lights, with whom is no variableness, neither shadow of turning.

>Romans 8:28-30 KJV — And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose. For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren. Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified.

Since time is an attribute of the creation and not the Creator, #OpenTheism is pagan.

>Genesis 1-2

#OpenTheism is little more than a formerly trendy revival of the Socinian heresy which sought to pervert the doctrines of the Trinity, the unity, aseity, and transcendence of God, to somehow separate the mind of God from the being of God, denies the person and work of Christ, and is harmful to the soul.

Abandon it and repent.

https://rscottclark.org/tag/open-theism/

https://carm.org/open-theism/what-is-open-theism/

https://thirdmill.org/answers/answer.asp/file/46679

https://www.galaxie.com/article/tmsj12-1-02

https://www.evangelical-times.org/articles/cults-and-other-religions/open-theism/

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Neopatriarch 2y ago

# God's Patience

Thank you brother for responding and I respect your desire to defend others against what you perceive as false teachings. I commend you for that.

Most of all, I just enjoy the discussion. So let's get started.

>Since God has perfect knowledge of creation's future, #OpenTheism is false:

So the first thing I notice is that you didn't engage with either text that offered. I suspect that's because a timeless God cannot be patient, and you didn't want to argue against what the Scripture proclaims. That would look bad.

But you're correct that if, "God has *perfect knowledge* of creation's future, #OpenTheism is false:" I suppose that's why you offered this text. You think it proves your point about "perfect knowledge".

>Isaiah 46:10 KJV — Declaring the end from the beginning, and from ancient times the things that are not yet done, saying, My counsel shall stand, and I will do all my pleasure:

That really does seem to back up your assertions.

Especially if:

"... in the beginning" here is like Genesis 1:1 or John 1:1

And if "...the end" refers to the end of time or the final judgement.

And if God is declaring these things to Himself, or other pre-existent angelic beings.

Does that sufficiently steelman your position? I hope so.

But my question is this, ***Did you read this verse in context?***

Who did he declare to in that verse?

> Isaiah 46:3 “Listen to me, O **house of Jacob,

all the remnant of the house of Israel**,

who have been borne by me from before your birth,

carried from the womb;

So it's not some secret eternal declaration.

God is appealing to His people throughout Isaiah that were turning to idols. He says, they can't do things cause they are made of wood or clay. They are just objects.But you Israel, know I can do things because I declared them to you from the beginning.

>Isaiah 42:9 Behold, the former things have come to pass,

and ***new things*** I now declare;

before they spring forth

I tell you of them.”

So, I hope you see Isaiah 46:10 is a power claim. God can do things, unlike idols that cannot. It's not divination, it's not perfect knowledge of the future, but rather I told you I was gonna do something, and I did it. So stop worshipping idols.

BTW: if God can do "new things" open theism is true.

#openTheism