What makes you think that one nostr bot posting labeling notes only to it's own relay is centralized claiming of authority? The problem is that nostr:npub1gcxzte5zlkncx26j68ez60fzkvtkm9e0vrwdcvsjakxf9mu9qewqlfnj5z has decided in his app that all report notes should be shown in the global feed and as replies even if they're not somebody you follow or care about. Every other app just uses these if they're relevant to the user. Switch apps, because this IS handled by nostr clients and you're choosing a client which throws it in your face.

To be clear, nostr:npub1gcxzte5zlkncx26j68ez60fzkvtkm9e0vrwdcvsjakxf9mu9qewqlfnj5z is totally within his rights as a nostr client developer to decide how he wants to display reports to his users. Amethyst is open source, he's happy for people to fork it and make versions that work differently, or better yet, provide PR's to change it's functionality.

I think "report" is a terrible name for content labeling because it keeps people thinking that there's somehow some magical secret centralized authority which is getting those reports and taking action on them. That's not how Nostr works. I think we should change the nip to say 'content labeling' and 'flagging users' / 'flagging content' because that's what's happening in Nostr. The apps in the AppStore / Google Play will still need to have it say Report in the UI, but that's their platform monopoly requirements. Relay operators have the power to choose what content they'll host. Almost all do filtering and dropping content based on their own decisions. Nostr isn't a 'you have to listen to me protocol' nor is it a "you have to host my content" protocol. You get the ability to say what you want, but so does everybody else. If you want to make sure your content is online, run a relay. That's what we did with nostr:npub14h23jzlyvumks4rvrz6ktk36dxfyru8qdf679k7q8uvxv0gm0vnsyqe2sh , and we don't put it's content on anybody else's relays at all.

And because it's all open source, you can compile your own version without any content reporting or labeling.

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a relay is a central entity on the network thhere are many but each is a point of centralization. Placing yourself in a censorious role at the centralization was your instinct for solving an issue in decentralized space. There is no magic and it will end up killing your project. Once people understand that you are willing to stand between their tools and raw data there will be an exodus. face it now face it later. But dont mess around too hard. Some of us will take it personally.

I write open source software on an open source permissionless protocol. Relays are only centralized if you choose to, if you want to only use the Damus relay, then you're choosing to give nostr:npub1xtscya34g58tk0z605fvr788k263gsu6cy9x0mhnm87echrgufzsevkk5s authority over what content you can publish or see.

If you're so concerned about this issue, i strongly recommend you setup a relay, i recommend: https://github.com/hoytech/strfry

And develop a plugin to strfry that rejects all kind 1984 events.

Here's the instructions: https://github.com/hoytech/strfry/blob/master/docs/plugins.md

And if you want to run a service that reports all of my content, you're welcome to do so. Here's the code which is open source and you're free to use and modify as you see fit. https://github.com/planetary-social/reportinator_server

See, i'm not telling you want to say or do, go for it, but all I ask is that you realize free speech only works if it is for everybody.

its only for everyone if you stay the hell out of it and stop trying to censor people. Doesn't matter. Unless feds fund you or a banker somewhere (my be your plan) your silly project is soon to be dead in the water. Too many other projects for you to compete with a boat anchor called censorship around your neck. I would say good luck but I dont mean it.

I wish you long life and health. But also that you dont try to bring censorship to the platform.

Censorship is about suppressing speech, but somehow you're saying that my speech, which you're choosing to see, is suppressing your speech? Just use an app that doesn't support kind 1984 events. Use relays that don't support kind 1984 events. Mute bots you don't like.

You also might want to google me before you think that my projects are doomed or that I've just appeared on the scene. ;-D

Just Google me bro.

no, my speech is not supressable by the likes of you. I am saying, again, that seeking a central solution in a distributed network is a choice. you made that choice.

I am telling you to not meddle with peoples data stream. We all know that you want your functionality to be adopted widely. then its not just on your little server anymore. what about the collabs that you have considered or discussed? what happens when snicthbot is buried 3 layers deep in the protocol and is more hidden from common view.

You have an instinct for centralization and censorship and safe spaces. Just admit it to yourself. we already know now. dont have to tell us.

Look, if somehow i managed to convince all the nostr devs and folks managing the nostr nip process to do this, then you could just make versions of the apps and spec which didn't do that. We're an open source permissionless decentralized protocol.

Why is it you get to reply to me but i can't reply back to you? Do you not like the nostr:npub14h23jzlyvumks4rvrz6ktk36dxfyru8qdf679k7q8uvxv0gm0vnsyqe2sh events? Why not make a bot that reports all the reports. Or use a client that doesn't choose to read them. You're choosing to see this stuff you're upset with. Just don't.

Are you honestly still not understanding. you had two choices for how to proceed in a decentralized environment. You chose central service and censorship. Thats you. wheter you wanna admit to yourself or not. You chose central when you did not have to. you chose filter when you could have chosen client side functionality. you did that bro. Not me.

You did it publicly and we see you. You tried to be arrogant and send me to watch your 49 minute talk instead of having the conversation. I almost had to shame you into it because deep down you know how we would all react.

This is the way with censors. You have no idea how many of you I have met and fired from prjects and turfed from positions once I sniffed it. The world has changed. I am no longer theonly one that sees you lot. You guys overplayed the safety hand badly.

If I catch you in my stream I will destroy your infrastructure. So do what you do but stay outta my stream.

You've spent more time replying to me on here than it would have taken to watch the talk. But again, it's your choice about what media you consume. Do you want the bot to be taken offline? Do you think that content reports are inappropriate speech on Nostr?

Do you have any idea how Nostr works? nostr:npub14h23jzlyvumks4rvrz6ktk36dxfyru8qdf679k7q8uvxv0gm0vnsyqe2sh is not a centralized service. It's a single nostr identity which posts content reports on what it sees on the nostr network to it's own relay.

Where in the Nostr spec does it say, you must go and read content from Reportinator. Or you must remove content from your relay because of what's published by some random bot? Where does it say that your open source nostr client should request Reportinator events form the Reportinator relay and use them to shape what you see?

How is any of that centralization?

The code for this is open source, running on our servers, nobody has to pay attention to it.

https://github.com/planetary-social/cleanstr

In fact, most clients and relays completely ignore 1984 events. But why don't you make a version that labels any content you feel is woke so that you can filter that out of your feed. I think that'd be a good thing, it's not what I want to run, but I've created the tools for you to do that.

1 Yes I do.

2 If your infrastructure is filtering between me and raw data at any time I will smash it.

3 you are wrong

4 be better

Woke is funny. I am enjoying the heat death of the wokieverse immensely . see how a non censor behaves? I would never dream of filtering speech for others. I would have chosen tools for the user.

You are what you are bro. You are just making it worse.

This conversation reminds me of Karl Popper’s paradox of intolerance, wherein the only thing a tolerant person should not tolerate is intolerance because it leads to the end of tolerance.

I think (maybe I’m wrong) what nostr:npub1fd6xvlufxkxdtq4ds2ck5tfy6kluhzdvfvf50m5qu4n55ya60zeq43tddp is arguing is that this kind of bot is not simply another instance of free speech or a project on the protocol, but is antithetical to the ethos of the protocol itself.

That not anything can be tolerated on this open protocol, and this is pushing it. Because no one can stop you, the alternative is to point out how antithetical this truly is and make it reputational suicide to push it, ironically reporting *you* at the meta level for creating a reporting bot.

Once people see this kind of intolerance will not be tolerated, they will cease trying to report people, for the “greater good”, for “public safety” “for the women” “to save the children” for “national security” or whatever other noble reason one can conjure.

That doesn’t mean women being harassed on nostr isn’t a real issue to solve, only that it has to be done in a way that’s in keeping with the ethos of the protocol.

But it’s possible I’m misunderstanding.

No you nailed it. Concise clean and unemotional. Thank you.

did your silly ass just make a claim to authority? bro we are talking about this issue. I have projects and victories too. yee freaking ha welcome to being capable.

What do your former projects have to do with this issue? Uggh. you get more and more PMC fed smelling with every comment.

kinda gross bro ngl

💯

You opened yourself up.

You demonstrated to what lengths you will go to appease your Almighty Google and Apple.

This is who you are. A snitch who builds snitch bots under the guise of noble gallantry. It doesn't matter if it's happily running on your own instance of homemade nostr. You had the nerve to imagine it, and see it built.

You Glowing Judas.

Enjoy your boot 👢

Hum... Why is the bot creating reports and not NIP-32 labels? Those are two very different things in my mind. If you want labels, use NIP-32 not NIP-56.