Nostr Web Client

Drivechains

Alright people, we are playing a game of chess here. The one thing, the absolute one thing, we can't do is give up the king. To give up the king, in my humble opinion, is to mess up the base layer. This mistake would disrupt the delicate incentive structure that ensures sound money. That sound money pegs the extremely fragile credit markets and out-of-control G7 policymakers that are creating clown world with their CB fiat policies.

We don’t need the sound, pegged, money to move fast, we don’t need the money to do smart swoopty things, we just need it to be pegged, immutable, and digitally sailable to actually stop the madness of clown world.

By introducing a whole lot of technical complexity to the base layer and potentially screwing with the incentives all so we can connect to a bunch of centralized shitcoin projects is like playing offense with the king when you’re down 7 pieces and the other player still has their entire back row at their disposal.

A. Why the rush!?

B. Why not just go use Monero if you need that level of anominity in your transactions. Why do you have to have it in a wrapper via drivechains?

C. Why risk the king without deep understanding and testing of the technical risk and potential change to incentives?

The beauty of Bitcoin is you can build it and softfork it, and we’ll let the community vote with their nodes. BUT, I for one, have no use for drivechains (that doesn’t mean everyone is like me). And as a result, I will not be updating my node and running any attempted “secret” softfork updates by the miners.

Azz 2y ago

Drive chain attack vector

1. Bitcoin implements drive chains

2. Governments issue CBDCs. They are full Orwellian dystopia, ban cash.

3. Someone starts a stable coin on a drive chain that locks up CBDC and issues privacy focused stable coin with proof or reserves, all the best features.

4. Everyone prefers the privacy drive chain money over the CBDC, becomes main usecase for CBDC.

5. Drive chain grows 100 times larger than Bitcoin in terms of transaction fees for miners.

6. Government threatens to freeze locked up CBDC if Bitcoin miners don't sensor wallets that have been identified as belonging to some undesirable entity.

7. A series of hard forks occur when wallets are forked out. First minor uncontroversial issues but once a precedent is set government requests more frequent censorship for more minor issues. Forks that don't censor transactions find themselves with a minority of the hash rate. Uncensored Bitcoin suffers 51% attacks from government controled miners. Uncensored Bitcoin forks enter death spiral.

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Discussion

BitcoinSandy 2y ago

Oh well, it’s been fun 🤷‍♂️

Cyber Seagull 2y ago

Blind merge mining. Miners don't know who. Gov would have to target the drive chain project, not the miners.

Cyber Seagull 2y ago

6. So how is the CBDC locked up ? In DC, BTC is locked, not a CBDC. Any manipulation of a CBDC and the project can just out through bitcoin. Risk is limited to the DC token and project consumers.

Azz 2y ago

It would have to be in a round about way. Government attacks DC token project because it runs on Bitcoin, puts pressure on it to switch to a captured token like ETH.

If the DC project fees accounted for the majority of Bitcoin mining revenue, miners would have to choose between a compliant Bitcoin fork in order to keep receiving revenue from the project or loosing revenue.

Cyber Seagull 2y ago

That's not how DC works though. A successful project on DC might be vulnerable but not bitcoin. To miners and bitcoin its just another hash block. Blind merged minning is already bitcoin core by the way. Your premise requires miner censorship, which is not and has not been successful now despite years of attempts.

If you would read Pauls years of work on DC, you would see that DC actually increases security. More profits for miners secures the network, more... that's the way satoshi designed it. In addition, more miners entering the space means a larger physical lobby against gov interference (Matt Kratter).

Azz 2y ago

If the a majority of Bitcoin miners revenue comes from a drive chain project, and that project demands a change to Bitcoin or it will go elsewhere. The miners are incentivise to move to a censorship fork to receive the revenue from the DT project