Nostr Web Client

Did you know nostr:nprofile1qqsvnx99ww0sfall7gpv2jtz4ftc9v6wevgdd7g4hh7awkpfvwlezugpzdmhxue69uhhqatjwpkx2urpvuhx2ue0chkv5c now has a blockchain/shitcoin built in (called Flux)?

https://simplex.chat/blog/20241210-simplex-network-v6-2-servers-by-flux-business-chats.html#simplex-chat-and-flux-improve-metadata-privacy-in-simplex-network )

Did you know they've also started doing "content moderation"—blocking users, groups and 3rd party servers?

https://github.com/simplex-chat/simplex-chat/blob/821f034d18930c5c32d1c010a72bff15775b9337/docs%2Frfcs%2F2024-12-30-content-moderation.md

Yeah, so far it's only to stop CSAM distribution but we all know how that's a slippery slope. The good old "Think of the children" tactic. If there's a method to ban, block or censor, it will be used and ABUSED.

SimpleX Chat may have good #privacy but it's not decentralized, neither censorship-resistant. They also seem too concerned with complying with Google/Apple stores—“(...)there are requirements we have to comply with that exist outside of law, e.g. requirements of application stores.”

I also found out they are getting funded by VCS such a Village Global ( https://www.villageglobal.vc/ ), which have backers such as Bill Gates, Mark Zuckerberg and Anne Wojcicki and others.

https://simplex.chat/blog/20240814-simplex-chat-vision-funding-v6-private-routing-new-user-experience.html#the-past-investment-from-village-global

This is not freedom tech. I'm out. DYOR.

SimpleX Chat 10mo ago 💬 11

To address some incorrect criticism:

> Did you know @SimpleX Chat now has a blockchain/shitcoin built in (called Flux)?

Nope, that's not true. There is no built-in coin. Flux the company offers their servers to the app users. Not their coin.

> Did you know they've also started doing "content moderation"—blocking users, groups and 3rd party servers?

Also not true. We cannot block users, as there are no users, and we do not block 3rd party servers. We do remove addresses of groups that distribute CSAM from our servers, without any impact on users privacy.

> Yeah, so far it's only to stop CSAM distribution but we all know how that's a slippery slope. The good old "Think of the children" tactic. If there's a method to ban, block or censor, it will be used and ABUSED.

Not true. Freedom of speech without SOME restriction cannot exist - unlimited freedom always leads to abuses of power and tyranny. Study some history. Our freedom ends where the freedom of our neighbours starts, so some limits absolutely must exist to defend our freedom.

> SimpleX Chat ... not decentralized

Not true as well - there are 100s if not 1000s of community run servers. If you don't want to use ours or Flux's, use your own or anybody else's - it's all in a single network.

> not censorship-resistant.

This is correct, and this will change, as was explained in livestream.

Censorship-resistance and privacy are technically contradictory requirements, so they have to be balanced.

> I also found out they are getting funded by VCS such a Village Global

We were never hiding it, and who are it's LPs is irrelevant - they have no influence or control on SimpleX Chat.

Read this post: https://simplex.chat/blog/20240814-simplex-chat-vision-funding-v6-private-routing-new-user-experience.html

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Discussion

Katja Lutz 10mo ago 💬 4

> Not true. Freedom of speech without SOME restriction cannot exist - unlimited freedom always leads to abuses of power and tyranny. Study some history. Our freedom ends where the freedom of our neighbours starts, so some limits absolutely must exist to defend our freedom.

Sorry but this is statist double think at its best.

Freedom is the absence of power and tyranny. You cannot abuse authority power in a free world, because there is no authority.

If there is authority, it isn't a free world.

Freedom doesn't lead to abuses of power and tyranny, bad humans do, always have.

Freedom of speech doesn't end where the freedom of speech of our neighbours start. Speech is information and information alone cannot take away other humans freedom, but what bad humans do with the information.

Therefore, limiting freedom of speech in the name of freedom is a dystopian precrime police/justice approach.

All of that said, lets be honest here, there are other reasons why Simplex doesn't go full freedom of speech #MainstreamCompatibility.

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61bb909b... 10mo ago

So using flux is useful to the app and basically gives advertising to the token?

Aeneas 10mo ago 💬 3

"Freedom of speech without SOME restriction cannot exist.."

Shame on you nostr:nprofile1qqsvnx99ww0sfall7gpv2jtz4ftc9v6wevgdd7g4hh7awkpfvwlezugpzdmhxue69uhhqatjwpkx2urpvuhx2ue0chkv5c, that's bullshit, need to comply to your VC's daddys to stay mainstream doesn't you?

FREEDOM OF SPEECH CANNOT EXIST WITH SOME RESTEICTION YOUR DUMBFUCKS!

It's Moro! 10mo ago

did they backdoor their encrypted chats?

Hanshan 10mo ago 💬 1

so you'd prefer that they didnt censor CSAM?

Skipper 10mo ago 💬 2

Can you censor anyone from posting CSAM on Nostr? No.

Can you censor anyone from making a inscription CSAM on Bitcoin? No.

Why is SimpleX even worried about what some no-life pedos do on a self-hosted private group chat?

It's a battle you can't win, and is far too often used as an excuse/trojan horse to censor other things, push for anti-privacy and encryption backdoors. Look at the UK mess recently.

Hanshan 10mo ago

so youd prefer they didnt censor CSAM?

the fact that "what about the children/terrorism" is an excise used to rationalize LE overreach

doesn't then mean that CSAM isn't a problem and people should do nothing.

Skipper 10mo ago 💬 2

You think that will stop pedos? You can't win that battle, and if you start implementing ways to censor things, down the line they will be used(abused) to censor other things. It's a slippery slope.

Hanshan 10mo ago 💬 1

ok.

so you think they shouldn't censor CSAM.

which is a legit opinion people can have.

I'd personally think their methodology here

(having a bot join reported groups to look for CSAM)

is a reasonable compromise.

after all, they are relays that they are providing.

but then

i self-host my own Simplex relays. so they aren't censoring shit.

if you use *someone elses infrastructure*

don't be surprised if they put limitations on your usage.

🇵🇸 whoever loves Digit 10mo ago

facts matter

ede3d957... 10mo ago 💬 3

Them using state produced csam is part of the game. They always try to poison the well.

Do I want to see this? Absolutely not. Do I value free speech higher than coming across some violent imagery? Absolutely.

It's a tool to exert power like in politics where they all are in some extortion nring regarding child molesting.

Create dirt on someone

Let media make them a public figure

Exert control

People need to grow up and accept that there will always be humans that abuse others and inconcient politicians are currently in 99.9% of the cases do to lacking awareness in the role of the abuser.

Humanities shortcomings can never be a reason to give up essential human rights that are necessary to develop individually and collectively.

Hanshan 10mo ago

I don't think it changes the actual actionable part of the discussion.

whether we suspect its state produced or not,

infrastructure operators still must decide whether to do something or not.

ede3d957... 10mo ago 💬 2

I agree. The model is not sufficiently decentralised if we need to rely on infrastructure providers. It could easily be more decentralised and it has the capabilities. But the current implementation doesn't encourage the widespread use. That's imo SimpleX biggest mistake that will cost it market share if not fixed.

In the end it's me the individual that wants to control what I get to see and what not with the option of changing my decision on a case by case basis.

Hanshan 10mo ago

its pretty similar to nostr tho

a bunch of default relays that most people use to exchange messages...

or LN even

ede3d957... 10mo ago

New users only get to see the SimpleX servers and most newcomers don't even know they could run their own servers not to speak of choosing other servers like yours or mine.

Vyram Kraven 9mo ago

To answer your question ask yourself how would you feel if you released & app then for a few years all you hear is only pedos are using your app & your responsible wtf you gunna do about it? The law holds you accountable because your the operator. So if you don't remove the child pornography then you can be prosecuted. But csam is totally different because csam just is a broad jargen to say anything that looks like a kid so hentai & etc even though it's legal & acceptable they just brush it all under the same blanket.

Also the eu/uk is going through a cluster of law changes screwing around so I am sure he's constantly checking with his law team what can he do while keeping anonymity. But lets be forward about something. YOU CAN HOST EVERYTHING YOURSELF!

You want to upload any hentai or stuff afraid if might be considered csam & get you blocked from group directory host your own smp, xftp, & directory bot. Then you have freedom to do whatever & your bound by nobodies terms of service or privacy policy except your own.

Aeneas 10mo ago 💬 2

Do you know the most CSAM propagated in freedom tech comes from state agents to have an excuse to broke encryption didn't you?

Hanshan 10mo ago

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Aeneas 10mo ago 💬 2

People who do those kind of crimes are part of the system/govs, you know that, they use the crimes they commit as excuse to limit freedom and exert control over normal people.

Do you think that measure from simpleX helps stop real CSAM really?

Do you think the ones that produce CSAM use SimpleX servers to share with their clients?

Most horrendous crimes are committed by elite people and people from governments.

Big drug operations, sex trafficking rings, child abuse, terrorism, you also know that. (Pizzagate, Epstein, Escobar, Bin Laden..)

Hanshan 10mo ago

CSAM exists otherwise also.

and regardless of source, infrastructure operators have to make a decision.

theres nothing particularly controversial about Simplexs decision here.

Aeneas 10mo ago

Of course it exists otherwise also.

For sure they need to make a decision.

They thing that upsets me is their false narrative on the why's and pro censorship language on their speech, and that is a red flag to me.

("Freedom of speech without SOME restrictions is not possible.. study history", "censorship resistsnce and privacy are contradictory")

We all understand that it isn't to figth the propagation of CSAM, but to stay compliant with law.

If law tomorrow want encryption broken like UK law on apple what do you think SimpleX will do?

Abstract Equilibrium 10mo ago

If you want freedom of speech, RUN YOUR OWN FUCKING SERVER RETARD!

fightlessbirds 10mo ago

Hard disagree. 👎 Shame on SimpleX.

nostr:nevent1qqs0tcvam05sz9wq9pes9y9fe6eqmhyfkqt39t862a2ew6a9r7gqv5spz4mhxue69uhhyetvv9ujuerpd46hxtnfduhsygxfnzjh88cy7lllyqk9f93254uzkd8vkyxkly2mmlwhtq5k80u3wypsgqqqqqqsqshv2y

It's Moro! 10mo ago

come on guys its only cool if ur secure, anonymous private messaging app uses shitcoins built on top of our bitcoins

Ovelha Negra 9mo ago

They don't use any shitcoins, they don't make profit anyway at this moment

IHateMrBeast 10mo ago

Simple X you don’t belong on nostr

DanishCrypto 10mo ago

Why not..

everything & everyone belongs on Nostr to make it great

const_cast 9mo ago

Shame.