IF you don't know about any nodes (because you are a brand new user), AND you can't access these three hardcoded one, THEN you are fucked.
No I'm not saying that anybody could ever do better than that. Even in theory I don't think you can do better than that.
What I *AM* saying is that nostr is on the same order of uncensorability as this is. That is, IF you don't know about any relays (because you are a brand new user) THEN you are fucked.
Mainline has many bootstrap vectors, the three famous domains are convenience, not single points of failure.
PKARR provides signed, multi-endpoint records. Nostr relies on trusting third-party relays to actually store and serve your events.
Pubky’s protocol & apps are already open, the polished new app will open once it exists.
So your claims that PKARR “isn’t more censorship-resistant” or “isn’t really open” are disproven.
Thanks for playing.
Nostr has many bootstrap relays, the famous purplepag.es is competely unnecessary, not a single point of failure. From any relay through the data you can find many other relays, and from there the relay lists of anybody you want. It is a self healing network too.
Nostr provides signed, multi-endpoint relay lists. DHT relies on trusting third-party nodes for routing and data storaget serve your records.
Nostr's protocol and apps are already open.
I'm not saying pkarr is different than you imagine. I'm saying nostr is different than you imagine. And that they have similar levels of censorability.
Game isn't over.
You forgot to admit being wrong about Pubky open source.
Ah okay, I get your angle now, fair. I dunno though, would someone ever have an interest in Nostr or Pubky and not know someone on the inside? How would you even come to know of the existence of either if you didn't have a contact? I guess from a blog or article something, but still seems pretty rare to come to a social protocol not via social means, and therefore have an agent of sorts.
Even if you don't know anyone, you can run a local network in your town, and it only takes one node to find a node from the mainline big network, for everyone to be entangled in one big network... tell me this is not different from how nostr clients discover relays :)
Come on man, yes Nostr can become a DHT, a small one, but it isn't, not even close, it is not behaving that way and paid relays (the only sustainable ones) have no (almost negative) incentive in losing their advantage as the scarce common well known relays
You're making a lot of good points in this thread.
Also if I was Darth Vader and Nostr was the Republic's social network of choice then the absolute first thing I would do would be to setup a free and highly performant Nostr relay and boost the heck out of it. And I'd do it early too.
Same dynamic exists in Pkarr because relays. The difference is that Pkarr queries the DHT and relays in parallel by default and will always do so, because why not. So a relay used by everyone is very unlikely to be a single point of failure... because the parallel query to the DHT is not expensive.
Even if you are in browser, if only one of the relays you are using in parallel is honest and publishes to and read from the DHT, then no matter how small and obscure it is, it is still bypassing the malicious relays.
It is just too hard to censor.
