nostr:npub1kpwlxpzkxfmuxjmzc2wp3rf9vjg0sgydmlhsnrgqr3maf59h86qqdxxzz4 nostr:npub1ukcz3c3ek9ugnmrj37cjm2q9gsaqss5j9dqwpqmx0tgkzudsseqqcp40jn
HA HA HA HA.
The Super Pac already bought the politicians they want. They don’t need to vote.
nostr:npub1ycc7humdwrjm283g235uv2cxc0gknzjd2u8kfqclsqak4jfccx0qt0lrp7
You can buy as many politicians as they want, those voting simply have the choice not to vote for anyone they buy… because the voters have the real power.
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nostr:npub1kpwlxpzkxfmuxjmzc2wp3rf9vjg0sgydmlhsnrgqr3maf59h86qqdxxzz4 nostr:npub1ukcz3c3ek9ugnmrj37cjm2q9gsaqss5j9dqwpqmx0tgkzudsseqqcp40jn
Yes, it does, as I stated.
I don't think you are serious in this discussion. Just stirring the pot.
nostr:npub1ycc7humdwrjm283g235uv2cxc0gknzjd2u8kfqclsqak4jfccx0qt0lrp7 nostr:npub1ukcz3c3ek9ugnmrj37cjm2q9gsaqss5j9dqwpqmx0tgkzudsseqqcp40jn
I am entierly serious, and not stirring a pot.
If you think taking away what little money someone makes because it "isnt enough" is somehow solving a problem then I hate to tell you but it sounds like your the one who isnt serious here.
You dont solve the problem of people making a less than living wage by taking away what money they make. That should be obvious.
nostr:npub1kpwlxpzkxfmuxjmzc2wp3rf9vjg0sgydmlhsnrgqr3maf59h86qqdxxzz4 nostr:npub1ukcz3c3ek9ugnmrj37cjm2q9gsaqss5j9dqwpqmx0tgkzudsseqqcp40jn While unions are ‘legal’ they are hamstrung in states with “right to work” laws.
You state that businesses don’t vote but they fund Super Pacs that determine who runs. They don’t need to vote. They have economic power that matches or exceeds the political power of the populace.
Unions are an attempt to match the economic power of business.
nostr:npub1ycc7humdwrjm283g235uv2cxc0gknzjd2u8kfqclsqak4jfccx0qt0lrp7
No matter how much a business donates to a super pac they still cant dictate even a single vote.. the tohousands of employees votes have far more power than ANY amount of money spent on a super pac.. .which by the way is something people can do too (invest tons of money into super pacs)… so very poor argument.
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nostr:npub1ycc7humdwrjm283g235uv2cxc0gknzjd2u8kfqclsqak4jfccx0qt0lrp7
It literally has no effect other than to cause all the people who are making less than a minimum wage and barely able to feed themselves into people who now have no job at all and are in a much worse position, starving, meanwhile more educated/skilled people have replaced their job, people who would have made a living wage regardless.
No it doesnt fix a problem.. it makes a problem much much worse and fixes nothing.
nostr:npub1ukcz3c3ek9ugnmrj37cjm2q9gsaqss5j9dqwpqmx0tgkzudsseqqcp40jn
nostr:npub1ycc7humdwrjm283g235uv2cxc0gknzjd2u8kfqclsqak4jfccx0qt0lrp7 nostr:npub1ukcz3c3ek9ugnmrj37cjm2q9gsaqss5j9dqwpqmx0tgkzudsseqqcp40jn
"Solving" the fact that people dont have a living wage by making it illegal for them to have their less-than-living-wage job and essentially firing them leaving them with less than they had before.. is NOT solving anything.
nostr:npub1kpwlxpzkxfmuxjmzc2wp3rf9vjg0sgydmlhsnrgqr3maf59h86qqdxxzz4 nostr:npub1ukcz3c3ek9ugnmrj37cjm2q9gsaqss5j9dqwpqmx0tgkzudsseqqcp40jn No, this is poor reasoning.
Setting a minimum wage fixes the problem that people cannot live on that wage. The fact that it introduces another problem doesn't negate the good done.
The next step is to address the problem of displaced, under-educated workers.
nostr:npub1ycc7humdwrjm283g235uv2cxc0gknzjd2u8kfqclsqak4jfccx0qt0lrp7
It literally has no effect other than to cause all the people who are making less than a minimum wage and barely able to feed themselves into people who now have no job at all and are in a much worse position, starving, meanwhile more educated/skilled people have replaced their job, people who would have made a living wage regardless.
No it doesnt fix a problem.. it makes a problem much much worse and fixes nothing.
nostr:npub1ukcz3c3ek9ugnmrj37cjm2q9gsaqss5j9dqwpqmx0tgkzudsseqqcp40jn
nostr:npub1kpwlxpzkxfmuxjmzc2wp3rf9vjg0sgydmlhsnrgqr3maf59h86qqdxxzz4 nostr:npub1ukcz3c3ek9ugnmrj37cjm2q9gsaqss5j9dqwpqmx0tgkzudsseqqcp40jn There are some jobs that are incredibly hard to automate. Strawberry growers have been funding research into how to automate picking strawberries since the 1980’s. It is hard labor intensive work and the first person who can do it successfully will be a billionaire by the end of the year. In spire of directed research and huge potential profits, “Pick the red fruit gently without damaging the plant or the green fruit.” Is still not even close to reality.
nostr:npub1tm6ltkest6h954zp875h4vx8zl2l4kpl5zx2h95pqxzq7m83mcaq77lfah
There are plenty of jobs which may be a decade or two out before they will be automated.. it will take time and its a process.. but its a very real future we are moving towards quickly.
nostr:npub1ukcz3c3ek9ugnmrj37cjm2q9gsaqss5j9dqwpqmx0tgkzudsseqqcp40jn
nostr:npub1kpwlxpzkxfmuxjmzc2wp3rf9vjg0sgydmlhsnrgqr3maf59h86qqdxxzz4 nostr:npub1ukcz3c3ek9ugnmrj37cjm2q9gsaqss5j9dqwpqmx0tgkzudsseqqcp40jn But from the workers' point of view, whether the company is gouging its customers by price fixing is irrelevant to how it treats its staff. If the company is telling its workers to work in ways that are unsafe, or it is failing to reward them adequately for their work, why shouldn't they band together to stop it?
You are conflating collective action by people with collective action by companies. The latter is used to extract wealth from customers (people) and give it to legal entities that are not people (companies). The former is the opposite. Since we want wealth in society to sit with people, where it can do some good for them, not in a company's bank account (or their shareholders'), it is reasonable to permit one and forbid the other.
Collective action by workers created weekends, paid holidays, paid maternity care, safety standards for workers and a variety of other benefits. Without it there is nothing to counterbalance the power imbalance between a company and its workers. Companies have huge resources, workers do not, they have to have means for their own protection.
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> But from the workers' point of view, whether the company is gouging its customers by price fixing is irrelevant to how it treats its staff.
No its very relevant, because price fixing isnt just something they can do on products but its something they can do on wages as well. Therein lies the problem, it is **very** relevant.
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nostr:npub1kpwlxpzkxfmuxjmzc2wp3rf9vjg0sgydmlhsnrgqr3maf59h86qqdxxzz4 The more we refuse to address the government
It seems to me that reinventing a lean and work condition oriented union is more feasible then “fixing the government”. broken hacks like unions
Unions played a major role in the past 60s/70s pushing for work condition reforms that many are enjoying today and especially uplifting the manual labor class from poverty to middle income.
Today unions are entrenched in politics and bureaucracy sometimes working against the interest of their members.
They push the demands too far and led to bankruptcies and manufacturing offshoring to
Asia.
Am not pro unions in their current form today, but I am not holding my breath on “addressing the government”.
nostr:npub1qy6vuyq2t8dwn03mj9g0dhm5uwewz0tamta9lumm4qvdvu7xzjfq4870k5 It seems to me that reinventing a lean and work condition oriented union is more feasible then “fixing the government”.
No because you still wind up with a broken government that wont represent the best interests of the people and unions will, at best, stem the tide of the damage the government will cause. Unions played a major role in the past 60s/70s pushing for work condition reforms that many are enjoying today and especially uplifting the manual labor class from poverty to middle income.
Unions played a role trying to stem the tide of a broken government, no doubt. But they are still a hack to try to compensate for building a government that represents the people and far from a proper solution.
nostr:npub1kpwlxpzkxfmuxjmzc2wp3rf9vjg0sgydmlhsnrgqr3maf59h86qqdxxzz4 The govt should ensure that
Who sponsor the representative election compagne?
Big govt have been turning a blind eye on big corp for a long time, now I read children are working in meat factories in the US.
https://time.com/6256728/meatpacking-child-labor/
I am not saying that unions are going to fix this kind of problems and some of them are more corrupt then big corps and govt.
Am more pro lean unions that try to fix specific work condition issues.
nostr:npub1qy6vuyq2t8dwn03mj9g0dhm5uwewz0tamta9lumm4qvdvu7xzjfq4870k5 The more we refuse to address the government and accept half-measure broken hacks like unions simply because the government is useless… the more the problem will persist.
This is the failing of the left side of politics, they refuse to fix things the right way, if at all, and tend to accept half measures that make the problem worse or at least harder to fix.
nostr:npub1kpwlxpzkxfmuxjmzc2wp3rf9vjg0sgydmlhsnrgqr3maf59h86qqdxxzz4 Yes but, how will we accomplish this if we cannot build a proper political consensus, we need businesses and labor to work in unison or our country will probably deteriorate into a third world economy. Extreme unregulated capitalism can drag down and eventually destroy our nations similar to that of communism. Major point that I emphasize, is that American Citizens have had it too easy, we have lost our survival skills, we will soon find ourselves creating an underclass of people who no longer have the work ethic. Because the politicians failed to mind the store and big business in the end ultimately sabotaged our economy.
#economics #unions #QOTO #news
Sincerely, Katherine Tate, Managing Editor, #FreePeoplesFreePress News
nostr:npub1734e8cvj9tjwt3nrwyvewsgfy4zj8xk0770vf8cv286p4fcj0vvswawlul
Certainly no arguments there.
nostr:npub1kpwlxpzkxfmuxjmzc2wp3rf9vjg0sgydmlhsnrgqr3maf59h86qqdxxzz4 Half of what you say is true in a perfect non corrupt world, labor unions sprung into life because businesses in general had a stranglehold on local and state political apparatuses. Labor union organizers had been run out of local municipalities in droves and there had been a lot of blood shed on both sides. We cannot rewrite history to deny what had occurred in violent attempts by businesses to destroy the right workers to engage in peaceful collective bargaining, which in itself is capitalism nor should we attempt to rewrite history and deny that the holocaust ever happened! There are no guarantees that businesses will voluntarily honor anti-trust laws if labor unions cease to exist.
#economics #unions #QOTO #news
Sincerely, Katherine Tate, Managing Editor, #FreePeoplesFreePress News
nostr:npub1734e8cvj9tjwt3nrwyvewsgfy4zj8xk0770vf8cv286p4fcj0vvswawlul Yes, unions developed due to a broken system... which is exactly my point.. time to fix the system and cut out the stuff that should have never existed if we did things the right way.
nostr:npub1nqzzvvr02rm8eqqamu6u403a584ljdtuh0uwdqzdl5maxjn880nss7838y
Holy hell, thats just intentionall pointless racism at this point...
nostr:npub1kpwlxpzkxfmuxjmzc2wp3rf9vjg0sgydmlhsnrgqr3maf59h86qqdxxzz4 nostr:npub1ukcz3c3ek9ugnmrj37cjm2q9gsaqss5j9dqwpqmx0tgkzudsseqqcp40jn , and yes, I recognize Walmart exists, and your model was their business model, and I know what it did to small towns. My argument is those small town refusing to allow people to just open up businesses without incorporation, taxation, regulations, etc were what allowed Walmart to do it.
nostr:npub1p34kn5su0fzjmsqx7wegqftnd34xr7as808udkxyltcl9zw6jrqqajwdy6
Walmart was not the reason for anti-trust laws… anti-trust laws goes back way further.
If you are using refgulation to prevent businesses from opening because they got too big.. then you are implementing an anti-trust law already. But your “fix” doesnt address coalitions, at best that may address single companies getting too large.
nostr:npub1ukcz3c3ek9ugnmrj37cjm2q9gsaqss5j9dqwpqmx0tgkzudsseqqcp40jn
nostr:npub1kpwlxpzkxfmuxjmzc2wp3rf9vjg0sgydmlhsnrgqr3maf59h86qqdxxzz4 nostr:npub1ukcz3c3ek9ugnmrj37cjm2q9gsaqss5j9dqwpqmx0tgkzudsseqqcp40jn I argue that the only reason any group can control a whole niche is because the government regulates who can be part of the groups. Get rid of corporate cronyism, and allow competition, and those groups can’t form.
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This isnt theory, it already happened witht he gas industry and was the reason we needed anti-trust laws. This isnt theory, its history.
nostr:npub1ukcz3c3ek9ugnmrj37cjm2q9gsaqss5j9dqwpqmx0tgkzudsseqqcp40jn
nostr:npub1kpwlxpzkxfmuxjmzc2wp3rf9vjg0sgydmlhsnrgqr3maf59h86qqdxxzz4 nostr:npub1ukcz3c3ek9ugnmrj37cjm2q9gsaqss5j9dqwpqmx0tgkzudsseqqcp40jn , I think that looking at nations/states with higher minimum wages without doubt disagrees with that.
Personally I think the minimum wage laws are only there to undermine unions...
nostr:npub1p34kn5su0fzjmsqx7wegqftnd34xr7as808udkxyltcl9zw6jrqqajwdy6
No thats not how data analysis is done, ive mentioned this pattern many times. You would have to look at how the wealth of a country **changes** after a change in its minimum wage.. You cant just look at minimum wage correlation, thats not how you investigate causation.
nostr:npub1ukcz3c3ek9ugnmrj37cjm2q9gsaqss5j9dqwpqmx0tgkzudsseqqcp40jn
nostr:npub1kpwlxpzkxfmuxjmzc2wp3rf9vjg0sgydmlhsnrgqr3maf59h86qqdxxzz4 nostr:npub1ukcz3c3ek9ugnmrj37cjm2q9gsaqss5j9dqwpqmx0tgkzudsseqqcp40jn What makes it wrong to do it with your friends? To stop working as a mass? How is your action morally different when done with your friends than when you do it alone??
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Because once the coverage starts to approach a whole niche you have complete control.
Imagine the extreme of either of these cases, where the vast majority of people and companies decide to collaborate. Price fixing allows you to set unfair prices that prevent competition from undercutting you as you can fix the price locally to beat your competition while raising the price marginally everywhere else to make up your costs. Then when your competition goes out of business you just bring prices higher int he area and recoup your costs again.
It completely prevents competition from arising and thus eliminates any possibility of a free market.
nostr:npub1ukcz3c3ek9ugnmrj37cjm2q9gsaqss5j9dqwpqmx0tgkzudsseqqcp40jn
nostr:npub1kpwlxpzkxfmuxjmzc2wp3rf9vjg0sgydmlhsnrgqr3maf59h86qqdxxzz4 nostr:npub1ukcz3c3ek9ugnmrj37cjm2q9gsaqss5j9dqwpqmx0tgkzudsseqqcp40jn , let them collude to fix prices, and buy from someone else. Government limiting competition is the problem there, not the companies trying to maximize profits.
nostr:npub1p34kn5su0fzjmsqx7wegqftnd34xr7as808udkxyltcl9zw6jrqqajwdy6
We already know from expiernce that doesnt work. We created anti-trust laws with very good reason, because when they are allowed to coordinate and price fix the markets collapse.
nostr:npub1ukcz3c3ek9ugnmrj37cjm2q9gsaqss5j9dqwpqmx0tgkzudsseqqcp40jn
nostr:npub1kpwlxpzkxfmuxjmzc2wp3rf9vjg0sgydmlhsnrgqr3maf59h86qqdxxzz4 nostr:npub1ukcz3c3ek9ugnmrj37cjm2q9gsaqss5j9dqwpqmx0tgkzudsseqqcp40jn , not ‘allowing’ strikes is a a form of slavery. If the company or the strikers are violating a contract, you have a point, and start locking people up for fraud. But, no one should be forced to work against their will.
nostr:npub1p34kn5su0fzjmsqx7wegqftnd34xr7as808udkxyltcl9zw6jrqqajwdy6
No one is forced to work against their will, you can quit anytime, you can walk out anytime, you can threaten not to work until your demands are met.. this is all well and good. As long as you dont do it as a union (coordinated and organized).
Same on the anti-trust side.. companies are free to charge higher than market value on any product they want. But the second companies create coalitions and agree to fix the price for all the coalitions mutual benefit, it becomes illegal.
nostr:npub1ukcz3c3ek9ugnmrj37cjm2q9gsaqss5j9dqwpqmx0tgkzudsseqqcp40jn
nostr:npub1kpwlxpzkxfmuxjmzc2wp3rf9vjg0sgydmlhsnrgqr3maf59h86qqdxxzz4 nostr:npub1ukcz3c3ek9ugnmrj37cjm2q9gsaqss5j9dqwpqmx0tgkzudsseqqcp40jn , good answer, but I will suggest the jury is still out on how much harm it does... Long term more money in the economy means more money trickles down to the poor, and higher minimum wages for sure does put more money into the economy.
nostr:npub1p34kn5su0fzjmsqx7wegqftnd34xr7as808udkxyltcl9zw6jrqqajwdy6
No higher minimum wage does not put more money into the economy. At best it doesnt really effect the market much, at worse it harms it.
nostr:npub1ukcz3c3ek9ugnmrj37cjm2q9gsaqss5j9dqwpqmx0tgkzudsseqqcp40jn
nostr:npub1kpwlxpzkxfmuxjmzc2wp3rf9vjg0sgydmlhsnrgqr3maf59h86qqdxxzz4 , yes, but unions have free market competition. (With the exception of public unions, different animal). A company can chose to not negotiate or hire a union, or can chose to have the union be the labor supplier. The company choses to sign contracts, or not. This is no difference than anyone who supplies iron ore, or oranges to a super market, or day care providers. The union supplies a service, labor. If the company doesn't like that supplier, they can hire others. This isn't often a good choice for the employer, (see Boeing and their issues moving production to North Carolina), but it is their choice to make.
Unions are a sign of a true free market economy, and I anticipate most of the objections brought up in this conversation, will be when the state screws the free market up. "right to work" laws, for example. Taft Hartley. Joe Biden screwing railway workers last year.
nostr:npub1p34kn5su0fzjmsqx7wegqftnd34xr7as808udkxyltcl9zw6jrqqajwdy6 By that logic you should throw away anti-trust laws for the same reason.
Company coalitions and price-fixing would have competition with other coalitions. I can choose to buy from one coalition or another. I as a worker can choose to take their 1$/hr offer or not and always go somewhere else. The coalition provides a service, the means of production, if the buyer doesnt like it they can pay a different company, etc etc...
Sadly that doesnt work in reality because coalitions, like unions, can grow to encompass a whole geographic region and therefore eliminate any real competition.
Unions, like coalitions, are a sign of an unregulated market.. not a sign of a free market, these are different things. The market has been hijacked and the free market pressures have been price-fixed in both cases.