From: pablof7z<-DerekRoss at 06/11/23 10:57:42 on wss://nos.lol
> Interoperability are one of nostr’s superpowers and this mode of creating events it is detrimental to it
No it's not. There is no rule about the structure of the content of events, nor should there be. Any use can put any damned thing they want to into the contents of their kind:1 events. It's a free nostr! Clients have to live with that.
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From: pablof7z<-DerekRoss at 06/11/23 10:56:47 on wss://nos.lol
> Why make the experience of interacting with your content via a phone painful when you can make it not so? 🤷♂️
I am not making the experience of interacting with my content painful. Any pain experienced by the users is due to the client they are using. Some clients will try to parse markup languages. Some won't. Some will try to infer the structure of a note from the paragraphs, others won't. Que Será, Será.
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From: -VitorPamplona<-D... at 06/11/23 10:35:39 on wss://relay.nostriches.org
> You should do that on the e and p tags, not on the text, like social clients do. You can see who you are replying to and remove it on amethyst without having to pollute the text.
I don't mind "polluting the text" because I don't consider it "pollution". I also don't think the e and p tags are sufficient to give me what I want. And...it's a free nostr; what I _should_ do is up to me.
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It is the preview of the message because you’re constructing it in a way this world be incredibly difficult for a client to parse all this ambiguous text into something sensible
Check out nostr:npub1jlrs53pkdfjnts29kveljul2sm0actt6n8dxrrzqcersttvcuv3qdjynqn ‘s coracle or nostr:npub1acg6thl5psv62405rljzkj8spesceyfz2c32udakc2ak0dmvfeyse9p35c ‘a gossip to see how they allow you to, natively, add/remove p tags
From: pablof7z<-DerekRoss at 06/11/23 10:35:06 on wss://relay.damus.io
> ...you’re constructing it in a way [that makes it] incredibly difficult for a client to parse all this ambiguous text into something sensible.
It's a free nostr, you don't have to parse it. I'm certainly not parsing it.
The bottom line is that there are going to be a vast number of different clients. Each client will be pursuing it's own particular use cases for nostr. Some of those use cases will be relatively incompatible with others. C'est la vie! The last thing we want is some kind of fixed UI standard that every client must adhere to. Such a standard would almost certainly restrict the number of possible use cases and make nostr a lot less free.
So, if you don't want to propogate the subject tag, don't propogate it. If you don't want to parse the embedded replies, don't parse them. If you want to use highligher, use highlighter. It's a free nostr.
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From: -VitorPamplona<-D... at 06/11/23 10:18:15 on wss://atlas.nostr.land
> Or just reuse highlighter's event kind as a quoted event inside the kind 1. It would be awesome
Why would I want another event kind when I can simply edit the contents in place, like this. Remember, I'm not using a phone. I'm sitting at my keyboard, and I have a very large screen. Nostr needs to play well in the desktop environment as well as the mobile environment.
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From: pablof7z<-DerekRoss at 06/11/23 10:16:11 on wss://atlas.nostr.land
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> You can perfectly do that and in fact you could argue that’s one use case of highlighter.com; I see myself doing that to pull out specific things to reply to on kind 1s.
That may be.
>
> But including the whole content you’re replying to embedded in the content looks bad and breaks the structured data formatting of nostr events (increases parsing complexity/ambiguity).
It's up to the author if they want to include the whole content. It's easy enough to edit out the things that don't apply.
>
> Why not create specific event kind:1 tagging the content you’re replying to and allow threading to do its magic?
Oh I think we should all do that. More-speech certainly does. I just don't think that's sufficient for the application of discussion topics and debate.
See below.
From: pablof7z<-DerekRoss at 06/11/23 10:11:33 on wss://atlas.nostr.land
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> > I'm not sure what you mean by (not 1 character). Certainly a client can include the subject tag in a search. More-speech does that now.
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> You can’t do #search filter as relays don’t index non-1-char tags
That's true. However, I _can_ search every message that comes in from the relays I read. I should point out that more-speech reads, and builds a database of, every message that comes in from subscribed relays. (actually, you can set each relay to read all, trusted, or web-of-trust)
This is a significant factor that the twitter mindset has not really considered. Clients that don't adhere to the twitter mindset may tend to treat the relays as message sources more than as search engines.
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> > #e queries are good when you want to search for notes that refer to other notes. However, I also want to search for notes based on the contents of subject (and the note itself). So I want to put any note with "CNN" in the subject into my "CNN" tab. I can't do that with an #e tag.
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> My point is you don’t need the subject tag everywhere, just on the OP; each reply you can get by #e:[OP’S ID]
That's true _if_ the sending client obeys the threading nips. I note that, at the moment, quite a few do not. And, in any case, I don't want to restrict my search to a single thread. I want all message with CNN in the subject in my CNN tab.
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> Iirc the subject NIP doesn’t mention anything about replies having to copy the subject tag everywhere
I don't recall. I'm not interested in the legalities. The point I'm trying to make is that topics and threads are distinct things. We can have several disconnected threads within a topic, or several topics within a single thread.
See below.
From: -VitorPamplona<-D... at 06/11/23 09:47:17 on wss://atlas.nostr.land
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> I agree that CC and From is just duplications from a Nostr-native structures (#e, #p) and should not be rewriten in the reply note. There is no need for it.
Ah, but there is. First of all when I reply I can _see_ who that reply is mentioning. Secondly, I can remove those references if I want to change the CC list. For example, if I didn't want to bother nostr:jb55 with this reply, I could either delete the CC or change it to use the nostr:jb55 reference.
> This is really ugly.
Ugliness is the purview of the client, not the message.
>
> 
From: -VitorPamplona<-D... at 06/11/23 09:42:15 on wss://atlas.nostr.land
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> If you do >SPACE instead of just >, we can treat it as markdown and render it better.
You mean like this?
See Below.
From: pablof7z<-DerekRoss at 06/11/23 08:17:01 on wss://atlas.nostr.land
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>You can’t search by subject (not 1 character),
I'm not sure what you mean by (not 1 character). Certainly a client can include the subject tag in a search. More-speech does that now.
>and you can find the tagged events for the threads snuck more easily and bulletproof via #e queries
#e queries are good when you want to search for notes that refer to other notes. However, I also want to search for notes based on the contents of subject (and the note itself). So I want to put any note with "CNN" in the subject into my "CNN" tab. I can't do that with an #e tag.
See Below.
From: pablof7z<-DerekRoss at 06/11/23 07:57:53 on wss://atlas.nostr.land
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>Why include the body of what you’re responding in emails’ broken format of > quotes?
I do that so that I can respond to questions and statements in a structured way. Most of nostr is clinging to a twitter mindset where notes are one or two sentences long. I have hopes that nostr will grow beyond that kind of limited thinking and allow very salient in-line discussions.
>A tagged event already provides the quoted text in a far superior/structured way
The tags help the clients to construct the threads; but the tags do not help the reader understand which part of a note the responder is referring to. Again, the twitter mindset is a tough habit to break; but one that I think we should break as soon as possible.
>
>This looks broken 
I agree that it looks broken. Looks are the responsibility of the client.
GMPV Nostraloons, On Friday my publisher dropped all the detailed copy edits for Functional Design. So for the next few days I'm going to be head down in reviewing and correcting those copy edits. The Pearson folks do an excellent job so I doubt there will be very many corrections. Anyway, work on more-speech is paused until I clear this priority interrupt.
BTW, I got a new toy the other day.
Agreed. I pulled the RE out of more-speech about a week ago.
From: duck<-semisol at 06/10/23 08:53:16 on wss://relay.damus.io
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>And please no "RE: subject line"
I disagree with that
From: pablof7z<-DerekRoss at 06/10/23 08:34:41 on wss://atlas.nostr.land
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>yeah, I don't think the subject should be tagged on each reply, just the OP, replies shouldn't copy the subject tag imo
nostr:npub1v0lxxxxutpvrelsksy8cdhgfux9l6a42hsj2qzquu2zk7vc9qnkszrqj49 nostr:npub1xtscya34g58tk0z605fvr788k263gsu6cy9x0mhnm87echrgufzsevkk5s nostr:npub1gcxzte5zlkncx26j68ez60fzkvtkm9e0vrwdcvsjakxf9mu9qewqlfnj5z
any interest in supporting nostr:npub19mun7qwdyjf7qs3456u8kyxncjn5u2n7klpu4utgy68k4aenzj6synjnft 's NIP-14 (subject tag)?
I am using it on Highlighter.com but having such little support is making me question how far I can depend on the subject providing context
One of the uses of a Subject tag would be to search for threads. In more-speech I can create tabs that collect articles that match regular expressions. The subject is included in that search.
From: pablof7z<-DerekRoss at 06/10/23 08:05:57 on wss://atlas.nostr.land
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>nostr:npub1v0lxxxxutpvrelsksy8cdhgfux9l6a42hsj2qzquu2zk7vc9qnkszrqj49 nostr:npub1xtscya34g58tk0z605fvr788k263gsu6cy9x0mhnm87echrgufzsevkk5s nostr:npub1gcxzte5zlkncx26j68ez60fzkvtkm9e0vrwdcvsjakxf9mu9qewqlfnj5z
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>any interest in supporting nostr:npub19mun7qwdyjf7qs3456u8kyxncjn5u2n7klpu4utgy68k4aenzj6synjnft 's NIP-14 (subject tag)?
>
>I am using it on Highlighter.com but having such little support is making me question how far I can depend on the subject providing context
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GMPV Nostr: More cleanup of more-speech today. UTV arrives from dealer later, so we'll take it for a ride.
Jordan Peterson interviews RFK
How can I help? You will need openjdk-17 (version 17.0.2).
From: atyh<-Vishalxl at 06/08/23 14:39:02 on wss://nos.lol
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>can i get you to agree that more speech should build on OpenBSD?
Glad to hear it!
From: (DCP) at 06/08/23 13:06:26 on wss://relay.nostriches.org
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>BTW,
>
>Your very amusing and highly instructive videos have been aiding me in purple-pilling some key people...
>
>So, Thanks for that!🙏😁💜😆👍💯‼️
Refactoring progress made! Now it's time for a bike ride. It's a beautiful day!