Subnostr

Boatface 2y ago

#grownostr.

Replying to Neopatriarch

# Time

>In the beginning God created,

Yeah He did.

I'm struck that your first verse reference is to God being in time. Specifically, _the beginning_.

>the impossible conjugation of past, present, and future that is the Tetragrammaton,

Do you understand this? It's "impossible"? If it happened it would be possible by definition.

I agree with you though, it is impossible. The past is a memory, and the future hasn't happened yet. There is only now. What theory of time do you hold? And why?

This impossibility didn't come from the Bible. It sounds more like platonism. Are you a Platonist?

I think, among the few things God cannot do are logical impossibilities. So there are no round squares and the like... At least there are no examples of such in scripture.

>in the beginning was the word. . .

You've repeated this temporal reference for God almost like it is foundational.

>(and something to the effect of all things were made through him and nothing was made without him 1john I think),

I'll stipulate to that.

The very act of going from uncreated to created is something that, as far as I know, takes place in time. Assuming time is created is problematic. When would there have been time to do so?

>a thousand years is a day and a day is a thousand years.

This second Biblical reference speaks to how God experiences time. We understand this. School year one took forever, year 12 was over in a moment. Now I'm barely done paying taxes, when I have to start again. And sometimes, time slows down. Like when I cut my hand and I could see ripples in my skin ahead of the blade.

What none of these verses say is what you wrote, _ not bound by time_. I sure wish you would define that. I don't know what that means. It sounds like another impossibility.

>I think there are some others but that’s just off the top of my head.

I like those, I'm just not sure why you think they make your point.

>And we’ve agreed that God is The Creator. If so, why would we think anything was made that was not made by Him?

I'm not sure that time is a thing to be created.

>I think the error made is that because all is known, all is determined.

Is this your position? I'm not sure what you mean. So I'll wait before I comment.

>And we’ve agreed that God is The Creator.

I'll stipulate to that. That's sound Bible doctrine right there.

>If so, why would we think anything was made that was not made by Him?

Perhaps you understand time better than I.

>I think the error made is that because all is known, all is determined.

That's a claim. It's also platonic. Are you sure you're not a Platonist?

The Bible expression is that God _tests to know_. For example:

>Deuteronomy 8:2 And you shall remember the whole way that the LORD your God has led you these forty years in the wilderness, that he might humble you, **testing you to know** what was in your heart, whether you would keep his commandments or not.

By the way, if God can create something new, the future is not settled, and Open Theism is true. IE If there was a time when God hadn't created and then decides to create creation to which it sounds like you stipulate to. Unless you think God has no free will.

Boatface 2y ago

Let’s start with the Tetragrammaton. God’s name is the past, present, and future conjugations of the verb “to be.” It is impossible to be is and was and is to come at the same time, but with God all things are possible.

I don’t think I’m a platonist but we’re awash in that ethos here in the states and imagine there are pockets of it still remaining. I try to take a first century Jewish perspective to philosophy and may succeed at times.

I don’t claim SME status on time. I’ve thought about it quite a bit which doesn’t make me an authority but does put me in a good place to discuss what I think about it. Time started at the beginning when God created therefore God created time.

I would point out that scripture never says something, in the strictest sense. It is words that we interpret. Just like “open theism” never appears in scripture nor the statement that God doing something new means the future is unsettled. That does not invalidate your argument but it is how you interpret the implications of what you read in scripture. This is often a kind of argument used to create distance between the reader and the Bible; to take the pinch out of Biblical instruction. For me it is a mindset to try to be aware of what I bring to the scriptures.

I think my argument probably is “all is known (to God) but not all is determined.”

I believe God must exist inside and outside time.

I’m happy to hit any points I missed.

Boatface 2y ago

#factchecktrue #grownostr

Boatface 2y ago

#ouch #bigmeanie #grownostr

Boatface 2y ago

#glowie #grownostr

Replying to Neopatriarch

Really. What verse says that?

Boatface 2y ago

In the beginning God created, the impossible conjugation of past, present, and future that is the Tetragrammaton, in the beginning was the word. . .(and something to the effect of all things were made through him and nothing was made without him 1john I think), a thousand years is a day and a day is a thousand years. I think there are some others but that’s just off the top of my head.

And we’ve agreed that God is The Creator. If so, why would we think anything was made that was not made by Him?

I think the error made is that because all is known, all is determined.

Replying to

Poly Pagan

Everyone hates commercials but pharmaceutical commercials just really rub me the wrong way

Boatface 2y ago

They have a pill for that.

Replying to Neopatriarch

What do you mean "bound by time"?

Boatface 2y ago

God created time and does not exist solely within it.

Replying to Neopatriarch

# Open Theism

>Open Theism is the Christian doctrine that the future is not settled but open, because God is alive, eternally free, and inexhaustibly creative. - Bob Enyart

Boatface 2y ago

I missed this. But Good knows what will happen. He is not bound by time, the Great I Am.

Replying to Neopatriarch

Exactly. Most Christians understand that. There is opposition.

Boatface 2y ago

Then what are the implications of God NOT being able to make something new? Why the opposition?

Replying to Neopatriarch

# Isaiah 43:19

>Behold, _I am doing a **new** thing_;

now it springs forth, do you not perceive it?

I will make a way in the wilderness

and rivers in the desert.

If God can do a new thing, open theism is true.

#opentheism

#Bible

#Christanity

Boatface 2y ago

Why wouldn’t the creator be able to do a new thing?

Replying to Neopatriarch

# Isaiah 43:19

>Behold, _I am doing a **new** thing_;

now it springs forth, do you not perceive it?

I will make a way in the wilderness

and rivers in the desert.

If God can do a new thing, open theism is true.

#opentheism

#Bible

#Christanity

Boatface 2y ago

What is open theism? What are the implications of it being true?

Replying to

Sir Libre

I'm catering my daughter's wedding this Saturday. I rented an air BNB with a full kitchen to do the cooking.

I'm making

Smoked brisket

Mac & cheese

Cole slaw

Baked beans

Rotini salad

And dinner rolls

I traveled from MO to CO. The brisket was supposed to be here, but wasn't. We had to get brisket from the local store. 6 were frozen. Hopefully I can get them thawed by Friday evening.