To someone: I don't understand the false accusations. I don't understand the weird comments about "letting someone else determine your happiness" or whatever. I don't get why I have had to fight 100+ lies and bs. i don't get what it means or what conclusions you draw from them. I'm tired about getting attacked over everything without any communication, and then getting judged based on nonsense.
Look, I don't understand a thing about this bullshit situation. I get a lot of bs forced on that I never asked for, and doors closed by constant sabotage, harassment and abuse. I'm tired trying to understand and explain and I haven't gotten a sensible explanation in years.
They lied, deceived, mistreated. You have absolutely no idea who I am. And the last 8 years were laden with targeted coordinated malicious attacks. You don't know me, and you keep interfering without understanding anything about me.
Ah, sure, in that case you describe fine. But I'm not writing purely from the perspective of assholes.
Let's take another example: Jordan Peterson. I only recently got to know of him based on some videos. Without going into elaborate claims and opinions, because I can claim only a reasonably limited *impression* on this.
He fairly recently had an conversation with someone and there was a statement that summarized it as "I think you're reading way too much into it. There is only so much depth and symbolism to be found." (Paraphrasing, I forgot exact words. It's a reasonable gist.) Note: this quote had perfectly summarized exactly that which had been bothering me about it too.
That's why I say about intelligence or religion taking precedent over the other. I think Peterson is very intelligent, but I think his interpretations have become his handicap. And let me be clear: I think he would be smarter without his "religious crutch" (I hope I'm using the term correctly.)
I also know a religious guy who you can notice thinks clearly. He holds on to his religious values, but it hasn't held me back from a rational thought through conversation. Including when it involves critical opposing positions. Even if he points back to religion for whatever reason.
I think that's an example where his intelligence takes precedence.
So, no, not *only* assholes.
I think the key difference for me is: if one claims to prove religious superiority, but do so by many evil actions (lies, deception, misrepresentation, threats) while at the same time setting (unnecessarily) high bar for the other, then you cannot convince me of anything.
It's basically saying "we can be a piece of shit but you have to prove yourself to us". To me, it simply shows a double standard and an godlike ability to misuse excuses.
Anyways, I get your point. I suspect I'm about at the point where we're going in circles.
I never said I wanted to be a leader.
That's why I seem to find predominantly the "excuses" in religion. Yes, they claim morality, but we know (a sense of) morality exists regardless. So, what are you left with then?
The wisdom is doubtful at best, in particular because there is both no consensus and no single way in which these scriptures, regardless of origination, can be interpreted. Wisdom seems to be present in plenty of other places, more thoughtful and rich and respectful. Looking at wisdom and scientific reaearch specifically, there is similar value to be found in arabic cultures without needing to be weighed down by their religious connotation. (Or one's own.)
Sure. I get it. For me, I don't see the "moral foundation" in christianity. These people who wanted to "prove" christianity is superior also seemed more eager to demonstrate evil than good.
I am not so much reductionist as that I am pointing out that I seem to consistently find intelligence taking precedence over religion when good examples are involved. I also noticed that religion tends to want to hijack the "good examples" as reference case for religion, while the "bad examples" are always condemned to the individual.
I found the last few years a proof that religion doesn't contribute meaningfully more than anything else. That's simply my experience expressed.
I think it would be a lot more meaningful for people to question what morality is on its own, i.e. without persistent insistent ubiquitous presence of religion, than the mindless deferrence to religion that clearly fails on many occasions.
The point isn't the belief. The point is the need to take action, the pretense that one is better. The (sick) need to prove it. And, worse, that in proving they forget everything, including basics such as human rights, because they're "justified" (i.e. given themselves an excuse) by religion.
Religion claims to be the source of morality, but then they fail to demonstrate that as they try to prove religion better. And in some disturbed way, they tried to convince me that religion is the way to go, essentially through abusive practices.
It just doesn't add up. And they can't see it.
I think that the religious people too eagerly find a need to justify how and why they're better such that they forget their humanity. Zealotry as opposed to "appreciating the message of religion".
Unfortunately, I only know a handful at best who I think are intelligent enough to remember their humanity and I strongly suspect that it's because they're intelligent first and religious second. (Even if they may not admit it themselves.)
Is this yet another way of telling me I'm a faggot? 😋
This would work perfectly as a shallow attack on me. You know what the deeper part is?
Many, many people have shown exactly how eager they are to do anything given an excuse. Christian religious people have demonstrated *exceptionally well* that given an excuse they have no moral or ethical value. What they demonstrated, is that they indeed have no morality of their own, just what they think the fairytale tells them. Other people have demonstrated that, given an excuse, they will dismiss all truth to the contrary and attack regardless of whether it makes sense.
I had to take a lot of shit, then was proven right *a lot*. But *many people* proved they don't know shit about humanity or human rights or basic human values.
Sounds like things will be bubbling over. Watch out for gasseous ejections.
