In the end this thread is just FUD around Ledger to promote their own alternative. It's marketing, not reality.

If my parents were to use a Ledger and had fear to lose their seed, I could still recommend this kind of recovery mechanism.

In my case I use social acquaintances because I am against KYC but there are people who are not against KYC and who are not comfortable with recent technology. For these people this is the right service.

How about these takeaways:

1) Better trust multiple manufacturers than one.

2) On the market there are people who are not comfortable with the management of their own keys hence the need for services like the one provided by Ledger.

3) Ultimately education or self-education is the only thing which can bring users to manage their own keys.

I still don't understand all the fud around this story. I am definitely using multisig, but now go to your parents tell them they have to do it and understand everything in order to not fuck up everything.

It took me some time to be confident with multisig (and I am against Casa or other providers for that, I use social connections to store my keys in different geographic locations).

So definitely as someone who try to explain technical things to people and see all the difficulties people have with unfamiliar concepts, I can see a use case for the service provided by Ledger. I would never use it, but definitely I think it is far better than software wallets.

I agree with NVK, no one knows when something is broken until it breaks. Who would have known that a German airline company would have an airplane crash because of a suicidal pilot?

Same thing for software, until it breaks nobody knows if something is 100% flawless. So my opinion is the initiative is good to onboard users who are not confident enough to manage their own keys. Once confident, I think doing it on our own is better.

By the way I use multiple vendors for multisig, I think only coldcard or ledger is bad, but a combination of multiple wallets is good as it allows us to spread the risk of a device being flawed.

As far as I have understood the point of this service, it encrypts the private key and divide it into multiple parts to store it safely on a the servers of a partner company. Therefore a potential user has nothing to do to manage that, the whole process is managed by someone else.

Multisig allows us to share across multiple devices funds. So not one key is used but multiple keys, and the burden is on the user to make sure everything is OK as time goes.

I never used a provider like Casa so there is something I may be missing, however I see the service provided by Ledger totally different where the responsibility is shift to Ledger and its partner to backup your key. As far as I know with multisig the responsibility is still ours. At least in my case I am solely responsible if my geographically distributed backup fails, I can't cry.

So for my parents I think the service of Ledger is interesting. For me I wouldn't need it.

Intrigued I looked into Pornhub. First time I have heard the name MindGeek, but I digress.

Apparently the founder is Matt Keezer, born in Montreal (Canada).

I have seen also an other CEO, named Feras Antoon. He is Syrian-Canadian, so yet again a Canadian.

I stopped there because I have to go to sleep but I am interested to know if at least in this case it is verifiable.

I think you both have some good points.

I remember the story of my grand mother who had neighbors living in places with robbers. After inquiries to the police station they had a permission to have a gun (this story is in South of France by the way).

With American people I experienced friends being emotional trying to avoid to fight just because they don't know if their potential opponent had a gun (from my point of view of course he did not, it was in Japan). So in this case it's one example of someone being polite.

At the same time I had to do boxing to get confidence and to have polite behavior from potential robbers (who happen to always target weaker people than me, typically girls in my experience).

So I think indeed that without all the propaganda against guns (which, at least in France, targets incidentally guns from the US, hence rights of others in a different country) we might have a different opinion about guns.

In my case I am not pro-gun per se, but I am pro-boxing, I think everyone should be able to beat robbers to death. Yet guns have the advantage to make it easier for the average person who prefer to drink beers.

The advantage of Japan and some other countries in Asia is we don't need boxing or guns to live peacefully.

Not far from the Ginger Farm, I don't know if you know. If you don't know I recommend to try their smoothies, they are original and good.

That being said I will move to the North of Chiang Mai from next month and I didn't see weed shops there at the moment.

(Oh shoot, after checking Google map I have seen 2 not far from my next apartment).

What I really enjoy in Thailand is that everywhere I go nobody smokes, it is quite a big change compared to Japan where everybody smokes around.

I see. I am in the South of Chiang Mai and I have seen zero shops there. In the old city where there are tourists I have seen many. Let's say it is a coincidence and there was no correlation.

I have seen weed shops only where foreigners are...

I feel like this temperature is quite comfortable, I don't understand why this post calls it extreme. Another day in Thailand, another day I can skip stretching before running thanks to the temperature.

Welcome!

I was following you on Twitter. Thank you for you book programming on Bitcoin.

Nice!

I may be living in my bubble but do you have any past reference in your mind of browsers marking websites as dangerous? Besides certificates being expired I have never seen that so I think it is unlikely. Search engines like google though I think are more a nuisance.

Sorry, I missed your point.

I just tried Astral.ninja and void.cat on Firefox, it seems to work fine to me. Tested on Firefox in Lineageos.

Maybe it's my environment. What didn't work exactly?

I didn't know that, it looks pretty good actually, even better than Swan in certain ways. On Swan to make a present it would be by email, but on Pocketbitcoin they use Opendime, it's nice and original!

To be honest I live in Asia so I will use Swan also for this reason, but if you live in Europe, want to promote local services or simply want to try, it looks good (the fees are a little bit higher than Swan but it is still reasonable if you don't have to swap fiat currencies first).

For people who use Android there is a project which looks good and which is available on F-Droid through their own repository, it is Bromite. There are some cons when we compare it to Brave, like a limited number of search engines, but it could be an alternative.

Interesting, first time I hear about relai. I don't know for you but for me not having a website to manage everything is a deal breaker.

I am not allergic to smartphones and QR codes but if I am forced to use invest in a particular way I didn't choose I simply avoid it.

That being said I didn't test the app, maybe in terms of features it is equivalent, I don't know.

I would still use the one which offers the choice of managing my finance with a computer. This is a very personal choice so it may not help you in doing yours.

Yeah! It can be handy!

Since it was still the bear market I was in a hurry to put all my money into Bitcoin so I uses the direct transfers, the convert all at once button, and the other features as well.

On my Binance or other exchanges for example unless it changed there were no xpub feature to withdraw automatically to our hardware wallet. So this push to customers to make them withdraw is really nice too.

Swan Bitcoin is straight to the point. Buy Bitcoin, minimal fuss. If we use the direct payment we can withdraw Bitcoin almost as soon as we buy it. No speculation, no trading, just buy Bitcoin.

And so the advantage is all the infrastructure for that (free courses, easy hardware wallet integration, et)

You'd better buy Bitcoin directly. From Europe you can buy Bitcoin through Swan Bitcoin with Wise (you can manage euros and convert to us dollars)