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sommerfeld
d0debf9fb12def81f43d7c69429bb784812ac1e4d2d53a202db6aac7ea4b466c
Sovereignty, freedom, privacy, self-hosting and software dev 8BETLojm7zCfGV8DKKiRWLAXrFGbkZxDAgzpGmkrDvafTB18QFUg9cQ1KKDtcECrekV14yZDdGEEQbGy8ShXq1pDBVAh2Hw

unwrap_or() or map to Error and propagate with ?

Clean pants from now on!

Replying to Avatar Manánguri

But, you just described a public routing node which is not, I repeat, NOT for regular users. First off, and this is really important, it's PUBLIC. When has anything designed for public use, ever been suitable for private use?

A public routing node provides routing services for the lightning network for fun and profit. It has to ADVERTISE itself to the world to attract other nodes to connect to, and use it's services.

A public routing node requires a good working knowledge of Linux CLI and the knowledge and ability to secure an Internet facing server. It's advertising itself to the world. It's going to be attacked. Add to that a static IP, decent bandwidth, and a fairly grunty machine if it gets busy.

And, liquidity. If you haven't got a decent chunk of Bitcoin to provide a significant number of channels with enough liquidity to be useful to the network, you're waisting your time, money, electricity, hardware and effort.

This is not the setup a regular person needs for a lightning wallet.

End uses use a private, non-routing non-custodial wallet that doesn't need to be online 24/7, doesn't need channels balanced, because it doesn't route other people's payments. It uses unannounced private channels so neither the wallet, the node, or the channels will show on any lightning network maps, or be traceable in any way. There's litterly no way to ever know if a private wallet exists.

A private non-routing non-custodial lightning wallet, is private. No channels it uses can be seen by anyone. No payments made, or received can be traced by anyone.

This setup can run on a cheap mobile phone. And there's plenty of options for private, non-routing, non-custodial lightning wallets for mobile phones.

Phoenix wallet has to be the easiest non-custodial, non-routing wallet to use. I have used Phoenix, now I use Zeus on mobile.

1. I'm describing end user nodes. Every node has to manage liquidity and routes some way or another otherwise you can't send or receive. It's not a routing node exclusive concern.

2. Unnanounced channels are NOT private. They are easily found by probing and looking on-chain. Don't operate under that assumption nor perpetuate that misnomer myth.

If you want a real world example of a end user self custodial pain:

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Like everything in life, if you get caught up in memes and controversies, you miss the forest for the trees.

There's been (as always) great feats of performance from imoressive athletes, great storylines of failure, superation and excelence.

Peak stupidity. A professional certified LN node runner would know exaxtly what to do!

When completing a 2M sat trade on robosats, I couldn't do it with own lnd node, route kept failing even though I had a 10% max fee, more than enough liquidity a 3 good channels to very well connected nodes.

I had to send the 2M sats from my lnd to my phoenix wallet, but couldn't do it in 1 go, had to split it in 4x 500k sat invoices, otherwise the payment would fail, even though I had bought 4M incoming liquidity in phoenix.

Then from phoenix, I could finally pay the 2M robosats invoice and complete the trade.

Maybe I'm just a terrible node runner who doesn't know what he's doing.

They are fine pieces of software that make it as easy as possible to use Lightning in a self-custodial way. That was never in question.

The UX issues exist at the protocol level, they are stuff that apps can't easily solve.

Things like: the need to run a service 24-7, liquidity management, incoming liquidity, routing and failed payments. Not to mention the overreliance on lnurl which has a whole different set of requirements

Why do you even care for what I believe? At what point did this become personal?

If you think the self custody UX is great, then fine, we don't have to agree nor attack eachothers' character, motives or techincal abilities.

I know about phoenix and LSP based wallets, it's not exactly a secret. I've tried them all, they are very good, wished more people used those.

The fact they are good for someome passionate as me, does not make their UX good, specially compared to custodial wallets or even self-custodial shitcoin wallets.

I only bitch about stuff that I actually use. I avoid talking about what I don't know.