Yup

He’s class.

Koyaanisqatsi. Saw it performed (music) live also, great stuff.

Right right man, you totally weren't trying to make a point that if you've a European bank account your money will be used (queue CBDC theory) to re-arm Europe? Better have Bitcoin, like I do hashtag Bitcoin -> Russian news clipping -> giff of weapons etc

You were totally trying to make the point, that because you only hold Bitcoin, and therefore don't have a EU bank account, you'll be unable to voluntarily participate in the Savings and Investment scheme. [end sarcasm]

Your other comments:

'not surprised many will not even notice this is happening.'

-> What's happening?

'It's not my savings the one they'll try to use.'

-> They're not going to 'try' use anything.

''They can't take my savings.. it's not their keys.'

-> They're not going to 'take' anything.

Listen, your position is exactly this - that the EU is trying to TAKE, EU citizens savings - and it's misleading.

Deep research from ChatGPT:

European Commission’s Savings and Investments Union: How Contributions Work

The European Commission’s Savings and Investments Union (SIU) is a strategy to channel more household savings into productive investments. Crucially, it does not compel anyone to hand over their money or have banks automatically siphon funds from personal accounts. Instead, the SIU focuses on voluntary participation through new savings and investment products, supported by incentives and convenient options  . In other words, individuals won’t see their bank redirect deposits into an EU fund by default – you either choose to contribute or are enrolled with the option to opt out.

Voluntary Contributions, Not Automatic Deductions

• Opt-In Investment Products: The Commission’s plan is to “promote low-cost saving and investment products at EU level for retail investors” . This means creating easy, attractive ways for people to invest if they actively choose. For example, a person might open a new EU-wide savings/investment account or buy into a fund – but only if they opt in. There is no rule forcing you to transfer money; it’s about offering better opportunities and incentives for those who want to invest .

• No Automatic Bank Redirects: Banks will not automatically divert your existing savings into an SIU fund without your consent. The initiative aims to “increase returns on savings” by giving citizens more investment options , but any movement of your money would require your involvement. In practice, contributions would happen via voluntary actions – for instance, setting up a recurring transfer into an investment fund or pension. Even industry proposals for the SIU emphasize “programmed monthly contributions” and default investment options as low-barrier solutions, but “without compromising” individuals’ freedom of choice . In short, nothing will be taken from your account or “redirected” by your bank unless you sign up for it.

• Dedicated Funds Are Voluntary: If the SIU leads to creation of any “dedicated” EU savings or investment fund, contributing to it would be entirely voluntary. The Commission’s approach is to empower citizens to invest, not to mandate contributions. For example, stakeholders have floated ideas like a European Savings and Investment Account or an EU-wide retirement plan, but these would function like optional accounts individuals can deposit into (potentially with tax breaks or other incentives), not a government-imposed levy  . The goal is to encourage more people to invest by making it easy and beneficial, rather than to require automatic payments.

Auto-Enrolment vs. Opt-In Participation

While participation in SIU-related products is fundamentally opt-in, EU policymakers are considering auto-enrolment mechanisms in certain contexts – especially for retirement savings – as a way to boost participation. Auto-enrolment means you are signed up by default but can choose to opt out. Importantly, auto-enrolment is not the same as a compulsory deduction:

• Auto-Enrolment in Pensions: The Commission has signaled support for automatic enrollment in workplace pension schemes (similar to the UK’s system) as a best practice to get more people saving for retirement  . In an auto-enrolment system, contributions (e.g. via payroll deduction) start automatically when you get a job, unless you actively opt out. This approach is “widely recognized as one of the most effective mechanisms to boost pension participation” and is “actively promoted by the European Union” . Even so, it remains voluntary in outcome – every individual retains the right to opt out or stop contributions at any time . The Commission plans to recommend auto-enrolment for pensions by Q3 2025 (along with improving personal pension products like the PEPP) to encourage saving, not to force anyone’s hand .

• Freedom to Opt Out: In countries that use auto-enrolment, people can leave the scheme whenever they want. As one analysis notes, “in Member States with automatic enrollment schemes, individuals may opt out at will” . This principle would apply to any EU-endorsed auto-enrolment under the SIU. So if, for example, your employer enrolls you in a new EU-wide savings plan by default, you would have the clear ability to say “no thanks” and stop those contributions. The choice ultimately remains with the individual, ensuring participation is not truly automatic without consent.

Bottom Line: Participation is Opt-In or Opt-Out, Not Mandatory

Official EU communications and policy proposals confirm that the SIU will rely on voluntary participation, aided by smart defaults and incentives – never automatic confiscation of savings. The Commission’s own description highlights giving everyone “the right opportunity” to invest under the SIU, implying an enabling role rather than an obligatory one . There is no requirement for individuals to manually transfer money into a fund unless they decide to participate. Likewise, financial institutions won’t be automatically deducting money for an SIU fund without your agreement.

In practice, if the SIU leads to new EU-backed savings products, you will likely see opt-in accounts or plans offered by banks, insurers, or employers. You might be invited or default-enrolled to contribute, but you will always have the option not to. Any contribution – whether a one-time transfer or a monthly deposit – will happen because you chose to join the scheme (or chose not to opt out). The overarching aim is to *“turn savers…into investors” by making it easier and more rewarding, not by any mandate .

In summary, participation in the Savings and Investments Union initiative is voluntary and driven by individual choice. You won’t be enrolled in a dedicated fund unless you opt in (actively or by not opting out), and contributions will be made by you or on your behalf with your consent, not automatically taken by your bank. The SIU’s role is to set up the framework and incentives so that if you do want to invest some of your savings, it’s simple and beneficial to do so   – but the decision remains yours.

Sources:

• European Commission – Work Programme 2025 (Competitiveness): Announcement of an SIU strategy to promote low-cost savings/investment products for citizens .

• Deutsche Börse (industry proposal) – Emphasizes voluntary features (e.g. monthly contributions and auto-enrolment options as nudges) “without compromising…self-discretion” of savers .

• Investment Company Institute (ICI) – Notes that in auto-enrolment schemes individuals retain the right to opt out at any time; auto-enroll is a nudge, not a mandate .

• PensionsEurope – Highlights that auto-enrolment (with opt-outs) is encouraged by the EU to increase participation in pensions, whereas purely voluntary (opt-in) systems often see low uptake . This illustrates the opt-in/opt-out approach the SIU is expected to take, rather than any automatic deductions.

Sources:

• European Commission – Work Programme 2025 (Competitiveness): Announcement of an SIU strategy to promote low-cost savings/investment products for citizens .

• Deutsche Börse (industry proposal) – Emphasizes voluntary features (e.g. monthly contributions and auto-enrolment options as nudges) “without compromising…self-discretion” of savers .

• Investment Company Institute (ICI) – Notes that in auto-enrolment schemes individuals retain the right to opt out at any time; auto-enroll is a nudge, not a mandate .

• PensionsEurope – Highlights that auto-enrolment (with opt-outs) is encouraged by the EU to increase participation in pensions, whereas purely voluntary (opt-in) systems often see low uptake . This illustrates the opt-in/opt-out approach the SIU is expected to take, rather than any automatic deductions.

No that’s not what they’re doing. You will/would need to move your savings to a specific investment fund/account voluntarily.

You're confusing the shit out of all of this, there is no 'speculation' of how 'this' could happen. You're talking about something else entirely - random stuff that could happen, for ways for the EU to underhandedly, covertly or by force etc take savings away from EU citizens (which yea sure that could all happen), but then tying all that together with this post of yours with the screenshot to that article, and now on top of taking another random quote "we'll turn private savings into much needed investment" to back up your argument. Some people have clearly understood that you meant basically that, judging by their reposts and comments.

However that's not the case:

Simply depositing money into your EURO account and letting it sit there won't cause your bank to automatically redirect or fractionally reserve your funds into the Savings and Investments Union (SIU).

The SIU initiative is about creating optional investment products designed to encourage citizens to voluntarily save or invest more actively. Banks like EURO bank will not be required to funnel customer deposits automatically into any SIU-related funds or accounts as part of their normal internal operations or fractional reserve practices.

In short:

Your deposited cash will stay exactly where you put it—unless you actively choose to participate in an SIU-associated product.

Banks cannot automatically put your money into SIU products without your explicit consent or active opt-in.

SIU-related investment options will exist alongside traditional savings accounts but will always require you (the customer) to intentionally opt-in or explicitly not opt-out.

So, if you do nothing, your funds remain unaffected and won't be automatically moved or invested into the SIU.

lol. The part where you suggest it’s not happening with your money because it’s hashtag bitcoin, and not euros where it can be “taken” from you as per the misleading article you snipped from TASS suggests.

If you thought that the article was to do with “tricking” Europeans into investing in bonds, why not add that context to your note?

The a way you framed the post and the way the article is (intentionally worded) suggests (and has been picked as such by others in this thread), that citizens savings will somehow be covertly/underhandedly be used, as opposed to being voluntarily deposited.

Negligible as they were mined using a PC CPU at the time.

No official EU announcement calls for commandeering citizens’ savings.

The plan is to entice voluntary private investment (via bonds, funds, etc.),

False:

Bottom Line: The European Commission has discussed tapping into Europeans’ large savings pool to fund EU objectives, including defense, but not in the sense of a forced grab of private money. Commissioner Maria Luís Albuquerque did highlight an estimated €10 trillion in “unused” savings and the intention to “mobilise” some of it for Europe’s defense-industrial buildup, as reported by TASS and others  . This reflects an official strategy to launch a Savings and Investment Union, channeling private savings into investments that support EU policy goals . No official EU announcement calls for commandeering citizens’ savings, however. The plan is to entice voluntary private investment (via bonds, funds, etc.), complementing public expenditures. Reputable outlets like Reuters and the Financial Times confirm the EU’s push for hundreds of billions in defense funding – largely through government spending and loans – but do not mention any direct use of personal savings . In summary, Maria Luís Albuquerque’s comments are genuine, but they describe a capital-market initiative rather than an outright €10 trillion cash grab. The European Commission has implicitly confirmed the policy (encouraging private capital for defense) while making clear through context that it’s about mobilization, not confiscation of EU citizens’ savings  .

I’ve no idea what to make of this? What’s your take?

Ok he’s a fiat maxi, and I a recovering one… so talk purely about price why is it worth the fiat amount? And then after that try build a bridge for us that moves from the fiat price to, (theoretically perhaps?) what the value is of bitcoin? It’s fair to say I’m completely confused really tbh. There’s the fiat price and then what exactly? Pricing what world in bitcoin, but won’t I just be using the fiat price as a proxy?

#asknostr

I've been trying to orange pill a good friend of mine, I read this article https://fee.org/articles/what-gave-bitcoin-its-value I found on nostr:npub1lxktpvp5cnq3wl5ctu2x88e30mc0ahh8v47qvzc5dmneqqjrzlkqpm5xlc webpage (thanks btw) It was the first article that landed - it answered the question of why does it have value for him, which he was struggling with and with which I was struggling to eloquently get across to him.

Question now though, but he had a reasonable followup statement and question: I would still have some reservations about the fair value of it. Was he saying it's worth 100,000 because of the number of people using or what?

And honestly I'm asking the question too, why is Bitcoin worth the amount it is? (in fiat terms, lets start with that anyways)

I was going to mention about 'Metcalfe's law' as it's what he's referenced essentially.

Anyways, thanks for reading - and for any forthcoming answers!

GM! Only learnt that Sunday's were break day because they're always a feast day a few years ago! 😅

Wait, so not everyone has this? 🤨

Can’t pay with lightning?

Love the drawing. What tradition are you drawing on for your philosophy/metaphysics though?

Ok can you explain the truth to me, I’d like to know what you know, if you can take the time to explain it?

Pretty good didn’t know who she was at the time and was saying to myself that’s some banging stuff.