Is this EU vs EUA thing now the new Red vs Blue? 🤣
We need to stop normalizing the idea that you can buy bitcoin trough ETFs, Centralized exchanges and the likes. You can't and that is not bitcoin. (The image shows an excerpt from The Big Print) @Lawrence Lepard
People need to talk about bitcoin's pricing mechanism. There should be the "paper bitcoin price" - extracted from centralized exchanges - and the "Bitcoin price" - extracted from P2P markets like Bisq.
People need to talk about bitcoin's pricing mechanism. There should be the "paper bitcoin price" - extracted from centralized exchanges - and the "Bitcoin price" - extracted from P2P markets like Bisq.
BREAKING: FED just pumped $13.5 BILLION into the U.S. Banking System through overnight repos, the 2nd largest liquidity injection EVER, just behind Covid.
SEND IT BRO! #Bitcoin.
https://video.nostr.build/1ce5b0fcb07ffc0baad7ee9806d9465bb3c40e73674b40bfc8bb299aa204851f.mp4
People need to talk about bitcoin's pricing mechanism. There should be the "paper bitcoin price" - extracted from centralized exchanges - and the "Bitcoin price" - extracted from P2P markets like Bisq.
QT is officially over. It’s only matter of time 🖨️ 😂
https://blossom.primal.net/2965089ef3a4784a2b6c4ecc5a0e2e8cb50f58240285d19df632d2452f479c10.mov
People need to talk about bitcoin's pricing mechanism. There should be the "paper bitcoin price" - extracted from centralized exchanges - and the "Bitcoin price" - extracted from P2P markets like Bisq.
I guess you are right for most of it. But i think there is also the possibility that they never questioned where is the "price" coming from. Like a no-coiner asking themeselves where does the dollar bill they hold come from...
Thank you! I really just would like to stir some discussion around this. I guess that the price of bitcoin should also be determined in a trustless way. Otherwise, what is the point of having a trustless money if its price is coming from grifters and scammers? I never heard the big mouths in the space talking about this...
That is a whole other level, and I hope we get there! But in the meanwhile, relying in the "price" as it is spoonfed to us seems not very smart.
And this also seems to be a great point in favour of XMR, since it is on its way to be the only asset with a credible and fair pricing mechanism - thanks to the eventual complete de-listing from CEXs.
How do you determine the bitcoin price? I guess you are all refering to "paper bitcoin" price. https://primal.net/e/nevent1qqsdg9qahgy2ctcr8uyky5uvrnz7gj3drdlxeqw6s2ygha7nq39d7qc244yr2
Article:
The Emperor's New Price: Is the Bitcoin Price We See a Lie?
Every day, millions check the "price of Bitcoin." It's the number that dictates headlines, fuels dreams, and triggers liquidations. But what if this universally accepted number is a sophisticated illusion? What if the price we see is not the price of Bitcoin, but the price of a system of custodial promises?
It's a question that strikes at the heart of how we perceive value in the digital age, and it's one the space seems curiously unwilling to confront.
The On-Chain Truth vs. The CEX Illusion
Let's start with a fundamental principle: Bitcoin is only Bitcoin if it moves on-chain. A transaction confirmed by the network is the only ground truth. What is being traded on centralized exchanges (CEXs) is, in the best case, a Bitcoin derivative. When you "buy Bitcoin" on Coinbase or Binance and leave it there, you don't own a UTXO. You own an IOU—a claim on a Bitcoin that the custodian holds on your behalf.
Calling this IOU "Bitcoin" in the market is, at its core, a misrepresentation. It's like trading warehouse receipts for gold and calling it the gold spot price itself. The price we see, therefore, is not the price of a settled, on-chain asset. It's the price of a custodial claim.
The Price Signal and Its Flaws
The widely cited Bitcoin price is an aggregated average of the trading activity on these largest centralized custodians. This mechanism has several glaring vulnerabilities:
The P2P Anomaly: Look at peer-to-peer platforms like Bisq or local P2P markets during major market downturns. Invariably, the price for real, on-chain Bitcoin trades at a significant premium to the "spot" price on CEXs. This is a screaming market signal: as the paper price falls, demand for the actual asset rises. A falling price in the face of rising demand is a market malfunction, yet it's ignored.
The Phantom Order Book: Can we prove the order books on these exchanges are real? They are privately run, black-box systems. They can be wash-traded, inflated with fake liquidity, or simply manipulated with numbers on a screen. Without transparent, independent audits, we are taking their data on pure faith.
A Glimpse of a Real Price?
If we wanted a genuine price signal for Bitcoin, it should come from a market where the asset is exchanged directly between users—P2P platforms. The tragedy is that even these decentralized markets often use the mainstream CEX price as their reference point, perpetuating the very problem they could solve.
Perhaps the future holds a clue. If a privacy-centric asset like Monero (XMR) were to be delisted from all major exchanges, it would force the market to invent a true P2P pricing mechanism out of necessity. Platforms like Haveno and Bisq would have to generate their own price discovery, free from the influence of custodial middlemen. In that scenario, we would finally see the price of an asset based purely on peer-to-peer supply and demand.
The Elephant in the Room
Ultimately, we will only approach a "real price" for Bitcoin when a critical mass of users internalizes a simple truth: Bitcoin is only real when it's in your own custody, on-chain or on a mathematically connected layer like Lightning.
Until then, we remain in a strange collective delusion. It is amazing how everyone, from the casually curious to the most technically savvy Bitcoiners, continues to pretend the current pricing mechanism is even remotely accurate. It is a foundational issue that goes unexamined. There is a huge elephant in the room, and for now, it's fully clothed in the emperor's new price.
What if the BTC price we see everywhere isn't the price of Bitcoin at all?
1. Bitcoin is only real on-chain. What's traded on CEXs is a Bitcoin-IOU, a derivative. Calling it "Bitcoin" is arguably fraud.
2. The "price" is just an average of signals from the biggest custodians.
During crashes, P2P platforms show huge premiums for real BTC. High demand, falling price? Think about it.
3. How do we even know CEX order books are real? Are they audited? Or just numbers on a screen?
4. The real price signal should come from P2P, but even they use the CEX price as a crutch.
The biggest elephant in the room is that everyone, from noobs to maxis, pretends this pricing mechanism is real. It's a massive blind spot.
It's funny because Strike did the exact same thing to me 🤣 nostr:nprofile1qqsvf646uxlreajhhsv9tms9u6w7nuzeedaqty38z69cpwyhv89ufcqpp4mhxue69uhkummn9ekx7mqpr4mhxue69uhkummnw3ez6ur4vgh8wetvd3hhyer9wghxuet5tm8sjr
Congratulations on your work! I am spreading as much as I can - mostly to family and close friends 🙏
Is this a TradeOgre replacement? https://nonlogs.com/
It should be a crime for any regulator to just propose this kind of laws.
We need KYC regulation for a healthy society. That regulation shoud be such, that whenever a company is caught gathering and storing information about an individual, that company should be prosecuted. And the consequences should be harsh.
