Nostr Web Client

Trade with China since the 80s has not included the voluntary labor of the Chinese people. They have been forced to accept paper promises (local currency) while the state has squandered the vast majority of the real value they should have earned. Immigration restrictions have kept workers unable to arbitrage their labor, and financial restrictions have prevented them from earning a fair return on any accumulated capital. This situation has primarily benefited Chinese and western elites.

Mike Dilger ☑️ 2y ago

That may be so but is a bit outside of areas I know much about. It sounds a lot like what happens in every other country too, but maybe different (as I say, outside of my working knowledge).

I know that China is made up of a lot of different people in wildly different situations. Often people working in Beijing send money home to their extremely poor village families. And nearly everybody goes back home for chunjie. My impression is China is very upbeat and many people are excited and hard working. But I'm sure others are near suicidal, and I suspect Uighurs are having their organs harvested. They aren't socialist anymore, they are capitalist ("with Chinese characteristics")... but they are single-party authoritarian.... still that sounds to me like a monarchy, and in a monarchy things can be very good if you have a very good king. They may have a very good king when it comes to economic issues, even if he is a dick when it comes to social and human rights issues.

Reply to this note

Please Login to reply.

Discussion

Mike Brock 2y ago

So you're pro-authoritarian as long as you can get rich? Cool cool.

Mike Dilger ☑️ 2y ago

This isn't Twitter. But I'm going to block you for that.

pam 2y ago

lol. double Mike battles are on and I am here for it!!

Btw, I think Chinese people should not be demonised for the dictatorial nature of their leaders. Can't speak for all but the few I know, the work ethics are top notch, incredibly hardworking, respectful, very old school manufacturing but no labour issues - i have gone to the inner cities to verify (not uyghur). I also think Russia sanction hurts the poorest of Russians the most - and if the goal is to suffer Russians so that they would revolt against their leaders, that's just cruel.

But on that same note, I do not believe in hegemony trade be it China or US, and i think small manufacturers building up globally will make a diff in diff regions.

Btw China is capitalist and still socialist - which is why they cant have so much money ie Jack Ma and Ant, and govt taking over it. Same like US (there is no verification to my theory) but if you wanna see where capitalist is leaning towards, see who see who CIA supports more - after Nixon, this support swung to democrats more than republicans

ok, intermission over. please continue back with the Mike battles

Mike Dilger ☑️ 2y ago

I'm not keen on any Mike-vs-Mike battles. I don't think I have enough topical knowledge to compete. I just express my current semi-informed understanding.

I often speak negatively about the US and positively about Russia and China. But that isn't because those places are better. They are worse, often far worse. The US is a much freer place. But I'm mad at her because she has been going downhill for decades and abandoning so much of what was great about her. She is corrupted and becoming less and less free (don't take my word for it, watch the latest Reason video about it). And China has been ascending and seems on the polar opposite trend, becoming more free and has suprassed America in most technical disciplines.

Maybe it is just a reversion to the mean?

pam 2y ago

Im just kidding, both Mikes are super smart. Mike Brock has vast knowledge and has gone through many cycles of diff ideologies and brings various interesting perspectives to the table.

I’m remaining an intermission and noise! :) In comparison US is a much fairer and liberal country no doubt. China started with tech adoption by piracy, reverse engineering tech (90’s , early 2000) similar to how Japan was in the 50s with piracy and then stepping up to the manufacturing game. Japan tackled the US market for example by sending Toyota team to the US to learn how US lifestyle and big cars work before creating Lexus and penetrating to the US market. But Japan and US formed close ties so US still lead. China market penetration in US has been different mostly through globalisation talking over workforce manufacturing and investing in large US businesses. And US has no control on this relationship. And it’s hard to beat a super low cost, easy logistics. I think Nostr and even apps like Tik Tok globalises the Chinese people more and gets them to mingle more with the world on a friendly, lifestyle basis and that’s gonna make a difference in liberating the Chinese people - it’s their Trojan horse.