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Think where the rubber meets the road is humans can’t really know who will be judged and who will be saved. So while one can believe one is doing righteous things, and others are sinning, it’s really up to God and therefore dangerous to believe one is righteous or knows best for others.

I mean there are obvious cases (like child predators) you can be pretty sure will meet an unpleasant fate, one way or the other, but mostly we just don’t know, even with respect to ourselves.

Liberty Gal 6mo ago 💬 2

Doing good things doesn't get you saved. There is no amount of good works we can do to get right with God. One bad motive or bad action destroys all of the good we've ever done. Our only good is what Jesus has given us when we trust in Him. Doing good things is what should be the result of salvation. We should be so grateful for what Jesus did for us that we give our all to Him.

It is true that only God knows the heart and who is really His. I suspect there will be some people in heaven that we didn't expect to see and some who aren't there that we expected to be there.

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Discussion

Chris Liss 6mo ago

Taken to its logical conclusion then, is it possible many who purport to follow Jesus are deluded, and some who don’t even seem to follow at all actually follow in their hearts? Like you get to heaven, and there’s a bunch of atheists, Buddhists, Muslims and Jews there, and you’re like, “You didn’t even believe at all!” And God says, “Yes they did, just not in the same words and symbols.”

Liberty Gal 6mo ago 💬 2

I'm sorry I was so unclear. When I say there will be some I don't expect, they won't be believers in other religions. There is only one way to heaven -- faith in Jesus.

"Jesus said to him, “I am the way, and the truth, and the life; no one comes to the Father but through Me." (John 14:6)

What I am talking about is we can't always rightly judge the fruits of salvation. One person might look like a Christian because they are trying so hard to earn their way to heaven by their own power that they do lots of "good", "Christian" things. Another person may not seem to do much but may be a quiet prayer warrior with deep faith that hates doing anything in public. God knows the heart.

It is not what we do, but what Jesus has done in us.

"If I speak with the tongues of men and of angels, but do not have love, I have become a noisy gong or a clanging cymbal. If I have the gift of prophecy, and know all mysteries and all knowledge; and if I have all faith, so as to remove mountains, but do not have love, I am nothing. And if I give all my possessions to feed the poor, and if I surrender my body to be burned, but do not have love, it profits me nothing." (1 Corinthians 13:1-3)

"“Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father who is in heaven will enter. Many will say to Me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in Your name, and in Your name cast out demons, and in Your name perform many miracles?’ And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness.’" (Matthew 7:21-23)

Hopefully that clarifies things more. I didn't sleep well last night, so I'm not communicating very well this morning.

Chris Liss 6mo ago

I think that's clear! My only question was could one have “faith in Jesus” without knowing who Jesus specifically was. In other words, have faith in the spirit of Jesus, but without the symbols of the cross and the Bible. Imagine a remote tribesman or someone born before Jesus, living his life (not in the surface level performative sense, but in his heart) in accordance with the teachings. Would he be barred from salvation simply because he was not exposed to the specific story in the Bible and the symbolism therein?

Liberty Gal 6mo ago

There are stories of Jesus appearing directly to people in Muslim countries where trying to convert a Muslim is illegal. The people are personally visited (somewhat like Paul) and led supernaturally to other believers and/or a Bible. Yes, people have to believe in Jesus (before Jesus came to earth, that meant belief in the messianic promises, but now it is belief in Jesus specifically), but Jesus is able to get the gospel to those He has called.

In reality today, it is a rare person who has never heard of Jesus, but you are correct that there are significant numbers who have not been exposed to the complete Gospel of Jesus. They have nonetheless rejected their creator.