We actually live in a clown world nostr:note1l6vlr73gkfx0umymg50acwna9lqtxvf28vdm32rp6dez44yx63gsw8e2uy
Discussion
Price controls has never and will never work. This is what communism does to society
It’s basic economics. Anyone for it hasn’t taken econ101
Certain price controls can work.
We produce more than enough food. The staples, should be reasonably priced for all, particularly the poors (which more and more are becoming this every day).
But they can only work with massive surpluses.
Most grocery stores operate at less than 5% profit margin. Prices arent high, it’s just too much money is just chasing too few goods creating scarcity. Yes food is plentiful, but logistics aren’t free.
Prices aren’t artificially high* nobody is raising them making huge profit
Depends on the products.
I’m not talking about packaged salads.
Beans, rice, salt, wheat, potatoes, dairy, can all be done at significantly cheaper prices if managed properly.
Incorrect. The producers need to make money. If no money made, bankruptcy begins.
You end up with empty shelves and hunger. Welcome to socialism
Logistics - Something grown somewhere sent to the other side of the world to be packaged then back to the other side of the world seems like a great way to bring cost down?
Yeah. We’re also not talking about packaged foods. Simply raw commodities, generally grown domestically.
"USA" beef coming from other countries
Sure that has a negative effect on price, local will always be cheaper. But that wasn’t the point originally made by sunshine, that “some price controls are good”. I think he’s trying to make the argument that if we grow locally and supply the demand it will lead to lower prices. But that doesn’t happen if goods are priced lower than production costs, nobody will grow food just to sell it for a loss, locally or domestically
Again, you need to learn about how food is produced in the US.
We’re already doing all of the things you’re discussing. Our distribution system is simply shite.
This whole thing was started by you saying price controls can work. Price controls means “govt now mandates price of bread is now $1 for a loaf” just as an example.
There’s not a single example of a govt controlling price that didn’t lead to shortage.
Healthcare, food supply, concerts, what ever commodity you want the laws of economics will follow.
No need to argue with commies
That’s the end of my Econ lesson for today. Unfortunately think it’s not sticking
Who is going to produce things without a reasonable profit margin?
NOT ONE PERSON will ever do that
People will do it with a gun to their head.. which is why this kind of thought process is extremely dangerous. You get to a point where people don’t want to work because there’s no point so the government needs to force labor on to you. Happened in China, Soviet Union, all the way back to Mesopotamia this shit has been happening and people like sunshine who don’t study history keeps repeating it
“Let’s produce more than demand calls for, that will definitely keep us in business!” Said the failed business owner
Or those with subsidies that then get paid to dump milk on fields lol fucking fiat
A business that is not profitable will soon be departed from its capital which will find itself in the hands of someone who is better suited to use that capital. Simple as that, in a free market anyway
Exactly that’s just another type of price control that leads to surplus
He’s arguing from a Fiat mindset. Read Jeff Booth, The Price of Tomorrow.
Fiat ruins everything and creates thinking & arguments that only seem logical because the world we all grew up in has been so fucking broken by bad money.
Fix the money, fix the world is the truth & then things become naturally deflationary, without the need for any human “price controls” intervention.
I wasn’t saying logistics bring prices down if anything I was arguing the opposite, that you can’t control pricing to a certain arbitrary low price, as there are costs like logistics that can fluctuate. If the price of the good is too low to make it economically infeasible then supply won’t chase it and you’ll be led to shortage. Why would anyone ship a product to lose money? They’ll just supply a market with that good that doesn’t have an unrealistically low price
Who determines this 'reasonable price' if not the ultimately democratic system of supply-and-demand? You're arguing for some kind of centralized authority to control said price levels -- which effectively cartelizes the market -- which is exactly how we got where we are today. I agree it sounds nice, even charitable, on the surface. But it has never worked. Let the market decide, and let private, voluntary charity fill the gaps where needed.
Centralized authorities can not possibly act as efficiently as the free market in terms of pricing. There’s no way to account for everything that needs to be accounted for to properly price during a specific time/date
The “reasonable” price is the price that doesn’t bankrupt the poors.
“Cheap” food is much less expensive than riots and civil war.
Here’s a book you need to read ..
What happens when a concert sells tickets at too low of a price? It sells out too quickly and you can’t get a ticket unless you’re one of the first in line. well that’s what happens with food and basically everything else of value. I really suggest you read up on this because you have a dangerous point of view on this
We’re not talking about concerts.
We’re talking about VERY specific and few commodities.
We are talking about commodities being priced too low. Which you’re saying wouldn’t lead to shortages. Which is wrong
No.
We’re talking about commodities being produced to levels where they will be priced low.
Look:
1) you don’t understand the current system in the US
2) it’s also apparent you don’t understand the amount of food that is thrown away on a daily basis.
These are things I’m very familiar.
Have knowledge before you spout nonsense.
Nah you are very ignorant to basic Econ. Producing too much supply has its own issues, especially with perishable goods. Why would a company increase their production capacity and not adjust this based on demand. Thats how you go bankrupt as a company
The current system in the U.S. is the result of price controls and crony protectionism. Overproduction of food over the long term is the result of subsidies, rebates, etc. and are funded by confiscatory taxation. Market interference always leads to shortages or surpluses--this is an economic principle against which there is no law. I appreciate the desire to help the poor--honestly--but there is a better way to do it that doesn't unintentionally harm them in the long term. See Michael Bauman, "Dangerous Samaritans: How we Unintentionally Harm the Poor".
Price controls inevitably require an authority to enforce them, which leads to producers producing at quantities that are unprofitable, and in the long term drives producers out of the market. This is the lesson of history.
Yep^
No producer will voluntarily produce commodities at a quantity that is unprofitable. Which means they would have to be coerced to do it. Interference with the market anywhere will lead inexorably to interference everywhere.
This might be a lost cost Aron.. not everyone can wrap their head around basic Econ, feel like we’re going in circles here
This economic law is universal (i.e., inescapable) and cannot be suspended for *any* very specific commodities without interfering with the overall market, and interference with the overall market ultimately harms the consumer.
But I’m “some moron who doesn’t get economics”. I literally have a masters degree in business and took much higher Econ classes then you sunshine. I think you’re ignorance is clouding your judgement