Just because Ukraine is fighting for itself does not mean that the US and NATO are not getting involved and taking advantage of the situation. And it certainly doesn't mean that Ukraine is rejecting the help of NATO. There are US CIA persons in Ukraine and have been for over a decade. There are NATO forces operating targetting equipment that is highly sensitive and requires lots of training. As far as I understand it, Ukraine appreciates the support. And Ukraine has indicated a desire to join NATO which appears to be (proximally) the reason Russia decided to decimate Ukraine before the joined NATO, since it was kind of a "last chance, do it now or else you won't be able to" situation that forced them to choose. Given Ukraine is the only flat-land entry into Russia for ground forces, it is of great strategic interest to Russia, despite whether it is "right" or "wrong" for Russia to abuse you as they are. Ukraine absolutely has the right to make the choice to join NATO, and it absolutely has the right to defend itself against Russia, but Ukraine also knew what was going to happen and the spurned the Bear anyways. When you fuck around, you find out.

I always throw my moral support behind any group of people that wishes independence from another, so my moral support is with you, but it's hard to be hopeful in this situation.

My family tends to flee rather than stand and fight. We lived in Beresan region near Odessa (Landau, Spier) [yes I'm Germanic] and we left when things started going bad, around 1905, and thank god we did because shit really hit the fan after that.

Generally, I give you the benefit of the doubt, so a few recommendations:

- please drop NATO/CIA/russia provocation narratives, it's early days russian propaganda which they themselves largerly departed from since. Also, russia first invaded Ukraine in 2014 when it was a neutral country with no stated desire to join NATO.

- Your "knew what was going to happen", "When you fuck around, you find out" etc passages are unacceptable and an obvious victim blaming, you don't do that if you consider yourself, you know, a normal person with some decency standards.

- It's Odesa, not Odessa, please don't use invader language to name our cities.

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Even the NYT has reported 14 CIA bases, which the US has been operating out of Ukraine since 2014. During the Trump administration, the covert operation was greatly expanded, and Biden built 2 more bases, bringing the total number from 12 to 14 (according to the Times). I don't think the US covert warfare in Ukraine is only a Russian propaganda narrative. Of course this level of CIA, covert warfare activity would provoke conflict with Russia. I hate it for the Ukrainians because you're caught in the middle. But, I do believe one dimension of the conflict is US/NATO interests vs. Putin/Russian interests in the region.

https://www.nytimes.com/2024/02/25/world/europe/cia-ukraine-intelligence-russia-war.html