Nostr Web Client

Ukraine war is not a proxy war, it's a war where we, the Ukrainians, fight for our survival and decent future at last. Don't diminish us and don't steal our agency, you're no better than russian if you do that.

Mike Dilger ☑️ 1y ago

Just because Ukraine is fighting for itself does not mean that the US and NATO are not getting involved and taking advantage of the situation. And it certainly doesn't mean that Ukraine is rejecting the help of NATO. There are US CIA persons in Ukraine and have been for over a decade. There are NATO forces operating targetting equipment that is highly sensitive and requires lots of training. As far as I understand it, Ukraine appreciates the support. And Ukraine has indicated a desire to join NATO which appears to be (proximally) the reason Russia decided to decimate Ukraine before the joined NATO, since it was kind of a "last chance, do it now or else you won't be able to" situation that forced them to choose. Given Ukraine is the only flat-land entry into Russia for ground forces, it is of great strategic interest to Russia, despite whether it is "right" or "wrong" for Russia to abuse you as they are. Ukraine absolutely has the right to make the choice to join NATO, and it absolutely has the right to defend itself against Russia, but Ukraine also knew what was going to happen and the spurned the Bear anyways. When you fuck around, you find out.

I always throw my moral support behind any group of people that wishes independence from another, so my moral support is with you, but it's hard to be hopeful in this situation.

My family tends to flee rather than stand and fight. We lived in Beresan region near Odessa (Landau, Spier) [yes I'm Germanic] and we left when things started going bad, around 1905, and thank god we did because shit really hit the fan after that.

Reply to this note

Please Login to reply.

Discussion

SBW 1y ago

Are you aware of official russian position and stated goals regarding Ukraine, which are: there is no such a country and it's basically a russian region?

Do you understand that practically this means, first, massive ethnic cleanings as already seen in occupied territories and second, using Ukrainian population as mobilisational resource in their future wars, just like they use Donbas/Crimea population to fight us now?

Mike Dilger ☑️ 1y ago

First, I could well be wrong on a lot of this stuff, I can only tell you what I think based on what I have heard.

I am aware of Russia's position as stated by Putin, and I think it stinks. It is a stupid reason, an "empire" reason, and I'm always against the idea of a great empire controlling vassal states (while recognizing the impossibility of becoming free of them). I also think it is a sales pitch to Russians and that there are other unstated strategic reasons, such as maintaining access to Sevastopol naval base which Russia has had continuous access to since 1783, even while Ukraine had independence (but was friendly and leased it back to Russia). 2014 was the first time Russia was in grave danger of losing that access, and they immediately took action to preserve it. Also, from the people who I've heard from who live in Crimea, they consider themselves Russians not Ukrainians.

I do not think Russia wishes to capture territory occupied by ethnic Ukrainians. I could be wrong here, this is my most uncertain assertion. I have not done an ethnic analysis of the battle lines. But this would be bad news for Russia if they did, like swallowing poisoned food, such regions would just be a thorn in Russia's side, always fighting them for independence, causing no end of troubles for Russia. I think Russia was much more interested in capturing strategic assets and territory where the people were mostly Russian speaking ethnic Russians. EVEN THOUGH most of those ethnic Russian people actually wanted to be independent from Russia (I am NOT saying they wanted to side with Russia just by virtue of being ethnically Russian, I don't think that is true), at least Russia has a far better chance of subsuming those regions than it does of taking ethnically Ukrainian regions.

But the standard mainstream message has been that Russia not only wants to take all of Ukraine, but then to march over Poland and further into Europe. I'll believe it when I see it. That would be madness, and Putin does not seem mad to me. Evil, authoritarian, dictatorial, but not mad.

I know about the ICC warrant and the Russian ethnic cleansing and their activities with children. At first I didn't believe it, I thought it was a simpler thing, such as protecting children who had been ophaned by the war. But I looked closer. They are indeed ethnically cleaning Ukrainians. And you should indeed fight back.

But just like I say to Palestinians: "You can't win. Why don't you just run? Save your family. Move to Argentina or something. Life would be so much better." Some people get mad when I suggest such things, as if I'm working for the enemy. I'm just being logical, trying to keep everybody alive. My family ran and we don't regret it.

SBW 1y ago

Because this war we can win one way or another, and because logically you can't run away forever, the earth is finite and round.

Mike Dilger ☑️ 1y ago

Then go win it. Godspeed.

Mike Dilger ☑️ 1y ago

You might like this one: https://www.youtube.com/shorts/5knylHj8ZXE

BUB 1y ago

You don't stand a chance. You are encouraging your own demise.

SBW 1y ago

Generally, I give you the benefit of the doubt, so a few recommendations:

- please drop NATO/CIA/russia provocation narratives, it's early days russian propaganda which they themselves largerly departed from since. Also, russia first invaded Ukraine in 2014 when it was a neutral country with no stated desire to join NATO.

- Your "knew what was going to happen", "When you fuck around, you find out" etc passages are unacceptable and an obvious victim blaming, you don't do that if you consider yourself, you know, a normal person with some decency standards.

- It's Odesa, not Odessa, please don't use invader language to name our cities.

ThePMC 1y ago

Even the NYT has reported 14 CIA bases, which the US has been operating out of Ukraine since 2014. During the Trump administration, the covert operation was greatly expanded, and Biden built 2 more bases, bringing the total number from 12 to 14 (according to the Times). I don't think the US covert warfare in Ukraine is only a Russian propaganda narrative. Of course this level of CIA, covert warfare activity would provoke conflict with Russia. I hate it for the Ukrainians because you're caught in the middle. But, I do believe one dimension of the conflict is US/NATO interests vs. Putin/Russian interests in the region.

https://www.nytimes.com/2024/02/25/world/europe/cia-ukraine-intelligence-russia-war.html