Nostr

Laeserin 1y ago

The repo owners feel no pressure to respond to the needs of independent developers because ignoring or sidelining us keeps us as passive consumers of changes they've already discussed and implemented.

That means they're always one step ahead and they look like magicians because they announce a change to the protocol simultaneously to a new product feature and we all get sent back to the drawing board. They do that a few times and we give up and their competition is gone.

That's why most users think there are only a handful of developers.

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Discussion

Laeserin 1y ago

Staking out a new space doesn't work because they drop everything to front-run you with a NIP and then they start changing the NIP.

That's why their stuff stays buggy and they constantly implement new features. They need the implementation as an excuse for the NIP and the changes to the NIP. If a NIP isn't backward-compatible, all the better. Everyone else's product immediately becomes unusable and it takes them a while to catch up again, so they lose users.

Strategic advantage of a monopolist preemptively controlling other people's design.

That's why I call them "Nostrsoft".

Luxferre 1y ago

https://hoi.st/posts/2024-02-12-cosa-nostra.txt

Laeserin 1y ago

Yeah.

I haven't given up yet, but it's absolutely brutal and I feel completely sidelined here because I'm not drinking the kool-aid.

I think we're slowly forming a counter-revolution, tho.

Deleted Account 1y ago

A counter-revolution 😆

Laeserin 1y ago

They be like,

Stone Leserin for wrong-thinking about our free speech protocol.

Luxferre 1y ago

Counter-what? A bunch of highly opinionated specs running on top of extremely mainstream bloatware cannot revolutionize anything.

And don't forget that a lot of users here, like flatjaf himself, don't know a shit about which technologies are acceptable and which are gimmicks. They are here because they aren't welcome anywhere else.

Laeserin 1y ago

It doesn't have to be that way, though. We can slowly deconstruct things through our own coordination and implementations.

Laeserin 1y ago

And I haven't completely given up on some of the people financing the work.

I think at least one of them actually gives a shit about the long-term success of the protocol.

So, here's to hopium. 🙈

Laeserin 1y ago

Fiatjaf reminds me of the CEOs of some startups I've luckily never worked at.

They're in charge because the original idea was theirs and not because they're good at managing an enterprise or have some irreplaceable competence.

So, they eventually run everything into the wall.

Virtually every startup reaches a stage where the founders exceed their abilities and knowledge and need help.

The startups that succeed are those where the founders recognize their own personal limitations, and seek that help.

Unfortunately in many (most?) cases that never occurs....

Didn't thought until know that you can't use Links browser for nostr. That's bad. I like using Links in some cases. I really do.

Luxferre can you give me an example of propaganda bot?

DanConwayDev 1y ago

Do you think people hear about a project you are working on and make a NIP to stiffle you?

I can relate to where you might be coming from. I was working on a tool for quite a while and then a draft NIP dropped with a basic reference implemenation, which caused a bunch of rework if I wantednto be compatible.

I don't think anyone was trying to stiffle me but just wanted to see some progress in a problem space so had a go and opened a nip to start the discussion.

DanConwayDev 1y ago

NIPs aren't holy scripture. A lot of times you can just do your own thing.

Laeserin 1y ago

That's what I tell everyone. Just ignore their repo, as much as you can, and keep building.

Laeserin 1y ago

Let me put it this way...

They made zero effort to not leave this impression with me. They just wanted me to go away, so I did.

DanConwayDev 1y ago

I'm sorry to hear that :(

captjack 🏴‍☠️✨💜 1y ago

Dev's pushing doesn't mean everyone buying it.

Laeserin 1y ago

I know. We try to just ignore them and build, but it's demoralizing and we keep losing good devs.

Having product salesmen as protocol owners is like having the fox guard the henhouse, but forking a protocol is also stupid.

They know they have us trapped.

captjack 🏴‍☠️✨💜 1y ago

normie users dnot care abt dev's infact toomuch tech drivesthem away to bigtech cage. there has to be trade off - also FOSS dev long term compensation - most companies offering FOSS has PREMIUM PAID service or SAAS model.

Laeserin 1y ago

A lot of Nostr runs on grants, bounties, and patronage, unfortunately, so it's more important to get everyone's attention early and be first, than to build lasting architecture.

Throw a rickety shack up on new territory, market hard with your huge npub, get paid, laugh at everyone building a nice house.

Repeat.

captjack 🏴‍☠️✨💜 1y ago

TCP/IP was same when internet started. Then came in commercial entities - ISPs / Routers / Portals

Laeserin 1y ago

That was hardware-related, tho, and less complex on the software level.

Anything hardware related is time-bound, and delayed.

Laeserin 1y ago

I also think normie users should care more about the tech here because they're going to end up stuck in a sw oligopoly, where you can have any flavor of client, so long as it's one from a repo collaborator.

Twitter 1, Twitter 2, Twitter 3...

but you can only have Twitter.

Laeserin 1y ago

I've noticed they think Nostr devs are something really rare and difficult to acquire.

No, they're common, but difficult to motivate because this place is very high time-preference and good architecture and devops takes a while to build.

Laeserin 1y ago

Besides, saying the alternative is to ignore the repo owners and build despite them is also a tacit acknowledgement that they might be bad actors.

Sovran Systems 1y ago

This seems like a good analysis of an issue that needs to get resolved.

Laeserin 1y ago

Shame nobody will see it. LOL