Ok. I need clarification from someone who knows more about theology on this one. I only taught Roman Catholic sunday school.
If Islam and Christianity are both Abrahamic religions. Wouldn't it be the same God?
More feels like forking an open source project. Then a bunch of competiting companies took vastly different approaches. Due to their own interpretations and intentions of the original source code. By adding on their own spins to it.
#asknostr
Its the same God. If the Islamic God is different than the Christian God, then we also have to say the Christian God is different from the Jewish God. The arguments for one works for the other too.
So either we do that, or we've made an error in our conception of God. Humanity has, not Christianity specifically.
One possible error is to believe that God is Good - to the exclusion of the Bad. Those are human concepts. A perfect being has no need for those categories ; what a human sees as bad can be good if you look at a larger picture, or visa versa, and even that is just a human rationalization and is completely unnecessary to a perfect being.
Another possible error is to believe that God can be limited in any way. You hear people say "God can't _____." Or "God needed to ____." Any such construction is nonsense. Getting that will require a shift in understanding Jesus, from what the churches teach. If Jesus is God, he isn't reliant on some formula of dying to do something, and it doesn't matter what some human wrote a long ass time ago. I am not denying Christ - everyone wants to jump to silly conclusions... Holding certain things constant, a different understanding must pop out.
And another possible error is to believe that God is at a specific place - in Heaven, for example. The Bible explicitly tells us both God and Heaven are within us, not a place. Islam and Judaism also make this mistake, possibly moreso.
The difference between Islam and Christianity, besides Jesus, is the acceptable conditions to do violence. Islam imagines itself to be a rebellion against oppression, and violence is acceptable in fighting oppression - but only then. Similar to Christianity, Islam also characterizes sin as oppression, and a "jihad" is meant to be an internal struggle. Obviously its not only limited to internal work.
I sure hope Lucid hasn't blocked you, BitTiger, otherwise my reply there will look totally psycho sitting there all alone...
No reason to believe he has - just saying.
I've heard the arguments that the Jews actually worship a demon, and Jesus was bringing worship back to GOD. Jews have worshiped false gods multiple times, like in the desert after Egypt.
I've started to think GOD kind of is in one place. But the thing with that thinking is GOD is not limited by time space or matter.
I used to think that too, and that's how I see it like oh it's all the same. It's the one creator of all. But I've also heard things like in Islam that the devil is a djin, not a fallen angel.
I think we can agree that there's a range within each religion. There are probably Christians who are more Muslim than Muslims and vice versa.
Are there actually any verses that say the devil is a fallen angel?
Regardless, that opens the door to a lot more questions... What does "fallen" mean? What does "angel" mean and how many are there and can a being which is called "angel" still be called that if it doesn't serve God? Why is there a conflation of Lucifer and the Morning Star? Is Lucifer Satan, or are they separate entities?
This is the point where people jump in with retarded assumptions. Their pastor said something, so its true. I'm bracing myself for it...
Totally think for yourself. My mom used to say GOD knows what's in your heart and to beware of hypocrites. Idk what you know, but I definitely enjoy this conversation.
Angel is a messenger of GOD. Angels visited Mary and Joseph. I've no idea how many there are, but as a human we can't actually comprehend what space even is. Angels aren't supposed to be worshiped so we don't focus on their names, or them too much. There's a whole host who simply praise GOD and his glory shouting "HOLY HOLY HOLY". Like if you get shocked by something and you say "holy shit", like that but so immense that all they can say is HOLY.
Fallen are those 1/3 of the heavenly host who rebelled, lost, and then were cast down. The war of Lucifer vs Michael.
No, once they leave GOD/fall they are referred to as demons. They're in darkness. Their sin took place in eternity so they can't be forgive or expunged for it. We are mortal so we can die and leave that life behind. Hence why and how GOD still has domain over them.
Lucifer was the angel, the most beautiful. GOD loved him, and said he was perfect. But inequity was found in him, and Satan is the same being after falling. Satan was proud and wouldn't bow to humans, therefore disobeyed GOD. Though you can argue, oh after that decision are you the same? But yeah same thing, but different times. Like how Saul's name was changed to Paul. Simon became Peter. Names have meaning and they change once you become that new thing.
Are there verses that say this stuff? There's a lot of fiction around Christianity... Are you sure these ideas aren't that?
1/3rd is very specific. Numbers are used symbolically in the Bible. There's a reason, for example, there were 7 baskets of leftovers after Jesus fed the crowd with bread and fish. After the disciples collected the baskets, Jesus asked them how many, and they answered - seven - and Jesus said, "don't you understand?" I'm paraphrasing, of course. The number is important. The Bible always specifies a number, even when its irrelevant to the simple story. That's because there's a symbolic story too.
Where did the idea that angels had to bow to humans come from? If you were face to face with an angel, would you demand that it bow to you? What would that say about you, if you did? Is it possible that the purpose of that story is to highlight an aspect of our conscious experience? Humility or pride led to an Angel's fall - is that directed to the fallen angel or to you?
IMO, it is irrelevant whether angels actually exist, physically or spiritually or in any way as discreet localized entities. The material happening of any of the bible stories is irrelevant to the significance of the story. People dodge this thinking by imagining the spiritual as a etheric version of the material - but in that case, why bother creating one or the other in the first place?
Why is it "holy holy holy" and not "holy holy" or "holy holy holy holy"? Why always three? And I don't mean as reference to the trinity - the question remains there too.
The purpose of the religion is to keep the stories, with the embedded symbolism, alive. The religion is a vessel. The spirit that fills the vessel is the meaning. Whether the layman understands the meaning has no bearing on the religion. In fact, it may be useful if the Sunday church goer or parishioner doesn't understand. So which do you choose? Continue following the blind, be the blind led by the blind ; or do you choose spirit, meaning, using your eyes? That's not meant in an accusatory way, but in general, it is frustrating to me because everyone should be asking these questions and demanding answers.
You are too wordy omg. Say it simply.
I'm not saying angels should bow to me...
Bro you're so unorganized.
The usage of 2s and 3s for something like Lord Lord is to give emphasis. The same if we were to use italics.
You asked questions so I answered, then you move to something else.
Religion is a structured spirituality.
I feel like maybe you're high, because you're just rambling with no point or purpose. That's just a waste of time because it'll change or move with no solution.
That's not what I was even saying with my "holy' story omg
Isaiah 14:12-15
