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Monero privacy tech isn't static. Many improvements over time. Full-chain membership proofs is up next. Work is already funded and in progress.

Even with zSide it still doesn't address fungibility. Transactions would be trivial to distinguish from normal Bitcoin transactions.

Discreet and ubiquitous nature of RandomX mining wouldn't be carried over either.

There is a lot of privacy tech out there that is theoretically better. It's all just untested in the market or has no/poor implementations of it in crypto.

BTCapsule 🏴 2y ago

With zSide* the tech is also not static. It can easily be hard forked, or another sidechain can replace it. Regardless, it is all the same underlying asset- #Bitcoin.

Fungibility is important, and Paul addresses that with Melt/Cast. This is truly a way to have plausible deniability that we own Bitcoin at all.

The sidechain can certainly use RandomX mining. Blind merge mining is for the peg-out. The individual sidechains can use whatever mining technique they want. The only requirement is to have enough fees to justify the sidechain’s existence.

*zCash privacy sidechain on Bitcoin

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Discussion

Saberhagen The Nameless 2y ago

Ok, but zSide doesn't even really exist yet. My point was Monero or other privacy coins with actual adoption aren't just waiting for it to catch up.

Being a sidechain of Bitcoin is an advantage in a certain way, but that doesn't mean it inherits on-chain network effects. zSide would have to gain it's own from scratch. Just look at Liquid or Lightning that have been around for years and still only a tiny fraction of on-chain adoption.

Fungibility isn't just about plausible deniability. It's about one unit being indistinguishable from another. The goal should be to make money as uniform as possible to reduce friction. Which wouldn't be possible thru sidechains. On-chain bitcoin would be easily distinguishable from the sidechain making it easier to value units differently or selectively censor. Bitcoin alone already has issues with this even without sidechains.

Didn't know about the possibility to blind merge mine on peg-out. Very interesting. Can you point me to somewhere I can read more about it? Thanks!

BTCapsule 🏴 2y ago

zSide would definitely need its own network effects, but the softfork includes an upgrade to Bitcoin Core that has a sidechain section. So you can click on the sidechains and choose whichever you want. There’s a maximum of 256 (though you can have sidechains of sidechains so no real limit), and they sort of act as the "official" Bitcoin sidechains. With atomic swaps, anyone can use any sidechain and it’s all Bitcoin.

zSide is actually much cooler than zCash for fungibility. In the diagram below, Paul shows how he’s merged zCash privacy with a deniability method that he created. Deniability doesn’t even require a softfork. Unfortunately, no wallets have implemented this feature.

https://www.truthcoin.info/blog/deniability/

I’m sorry, I don’t know where I got the idea that BMM is for the peg-out. In BMM, a sidechain miner would use RandomX to mine a block, and then send a request transaction to Bitcoin miners that includes a special hash. If they mine the block (and they will because they’re blindly looking for blocks with the most fees) then they receive BTC. It’s a bit complicated, but makes it easy for Bitcoin miners to ignore.

Saberhagen The Nameless 2y ago

Thanks for all the info and links I'll give them a deeper read when i have some time

"Do any lite clients randomly query full nodes for random transactions (ie, random regions of blockspace)? This would help user to “deny” that they actually own any of the coins they are asking about. In fact, the mere presence of this option may be sufficient to give considerable “deniability”. It needs only to be on by default"

This method for plausible deniability when using lite clients caught my eye. Really good idea. Don't know why this isn't enabled by default for all lite clients.

876b56c9... 1y ago

Good question lol 🤣

876b56c9... 1y ago

zSide is better that nothing but it doesn't solve every problem

876b56c9... 1y ago

Now the question is how & when will zSide even come to btc lol 🤣

876b56c9... 1y ago

And how would even RandomX work in zSide ?