Nostr Web Client

The real answer is to increase the layer 1 block size, so it's useable. While that is outside the scope of what you and me control, we do have the power to culturally infulence those around us to make that happen.

But this of course not what you want to hear, so,

Really transfers both on layer 1 and 2 are messages that are signed. With the layer 2 being an IOU. If you don't onion route it through the current system, I don't see why it can't be sent like a regular message. Right now I'm sending you this via Nostr and signing it. You can read this when you're online, but I don't have to stay online for you to read it. So why can't I send you layer 2 messages, and a server stores the message, but not the private key? It's all a game of who has what data when. There could be ways of having the reciever keep the private key, and bring it all at once to the server.

Liberty Farmer 1y ago 💬 3

This isn't a Bitcoin block convo, it's a LN offline payments one.

In nostr, here is always trust. Fairly big. That's the issue. You trust the relay operators. For notes in 99% of all notes, not a big deal.

For real money, larger sums, a mortgage payment, whatever, it could be a massive deal and that trust needs to be minimized.

Having a 3rd party server doesn't really help, they could always shutdown or not pass on the store, etc...

Just spit balling issues here. I have NO idea how to solve the node issue. my main lightning node has zero issues, plenty of liquidity, and requires very minimal maintenance and occasional rebalancing. But I'm pretty even on them anyways, so I don't see it as a big deal.

Perhaps the answer is a few levels. Trustless(minimized) by own node online, trusting a 3rd party server for passing on when online(block stream has this), self controlled hosted LN, and of course fully custodial.

It's silly to think everyone will run a node, as well as that everyone will or should be custodial.

Reply to this note

Please Login to reply.

Discussion

SimplifiedPrivacy.com 1y ago

Well the lightning network is only needed BECAUSE blockstream kept the blocks small. Against the wishes of Satoshi:

nostr:nevent1qqs96f2xzgagsfl2e880xgdjs22ln04snslk9cadfl32u2ctvwd070spz4mhxue69uhhyetvv9ujuerpd46hxtnfduhsz9mhwden5te0wfjkccte9ehx7um5wghxyctwvshspc3yws

Liberty Farmer 1y ago 💬 2

Holy hell have you left the conversation. And you started it.

Try and focus a bit and maybe we can discuss your actual topic at hand.

SimplifiedPrivacy.com 1y ago

check the one below it, I did answer you.

nostr:nevent1qqsvz5vsuzf2mtw32gc3d9rqgjctqd9qmm0488cayljns3dx6veq3ccpzpmhxue69uhk2tnwdaejumr0dshszrnhwden5te0dehhxtnvdakz7qg4waehxw309ahx7um5wghx77r5wghxgetk9uhzh4fd

Liberty Farmer 1y ago 💬 2

Not really.

You just went off about some other shitcoin they isn't related to LN, Bitcoin, etc...

You can't be opening channels Everytime you want with someone to make a payment offline. If they aren't online, you can't make a paymentnto then or open a channel.

It seems creating something totally is what you are looking for.

That's all good, but you mentioned offline payments and ideas for LN, and I explained the issues with that.

SimplifiedPrivacy.com 1y ago

I appologize if there was confusion in my explanation. I am NOT suggesting people open a channel with each person. I meant, we can redefine the technical problem to it's pieces.

If you can send async VIA ANY ONLINE guy who has a channel with the real receipient, then the NEW problem becomes how can we trust this guy not to bounce? By having pieces of the puzzle the WAY hoppr does it, but not using their coin. It could be a bitcoin seed phrase proving signing via zk proofs.

Liberty Farmer 1y ago

Ah! Gotcha. That makes more sense.

LN is amazing, but has a long way to go.

SimplifiedPrivacy.com 1y ago

Btw, you can do async payments if you open a channel direct with someone using existing tech modified.

Further, check out Hoppr. I'm not telling you to buy it, but look at the tech.

It's an Eth shitcoin, but they use an encryption scheme of revealing to each hop in onion routing the next piece of the puzzle. So if the real reciever, has a direct channel with the last hop of the lightning network, it can use a similar system, to not get access to funds, until it gets the last piece of the puzzle from the real reciever. Which is the same as "you can do async payments if you open a channel direct with someone"

Make sense?