My perspective: Why would i waste my time getting on a lifeboat when i’m on solid ground and there just happen to be some people are running around scared as if we were on a sinking ship
Discussion
nostr:npub1ak5kewf6anwkrt0qc8ua907ljkn7wm83e2ycyrpcumjvaf2upszs8r0gwg care to weigh in?
We don't judge the truth or falsity of geometry by how many students fail the class. It's either true or it's not.
We also don't judge the truth or falsity of something based on whether we like it or not, nor even whether it's useful or not.
The question around Jesus is singular: is he who he says he is? Did he, or did he not, rise from the dead?
But most people don't *want* there to be a God to whom they are, and will be, held accountable. Because the real answer to that question follows you everywhere you go--he is inescapable.
But thankfully, he is also good. And a cursory look around will prove this. We are submerged in evidence for his existence. Beauty, laughter, music, joy, order, ingeniously complex and mutually dependent biological and cosmic systems, math, the testimony of conscience, the heavens--all these declare his glory, they "are not silent."
No, sadly, not all will admit to what they already know, but repress it, and reject the offer of grace to their own destruction. But the offer, as the OP stated, is there for a time:
"Come to me, all who labor and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest. Take my yoke upon you, and learn from me, for I am gentle and lowly in heart, and you will find rest for your souls. For my yoke is easy, and my burden is light. [Matt. 11:28-30](https://esv.org/Matt+11.28-30), ESV
"There is a way that seems right to a man, but its end is the way to death." [Prov 14:12](https://esv.org/Prov+14.12), ESV
You said that much more eloquently then I could have. I have rejected Christ most of my adult life, and although I choose to turn to God now, my faith is infantile as is my understanding of the scripture.
All of us, brother. "Beggars trying to tell other beggars where to find bread."
This did not Jesus pill me but thank you for taking the time. All i see is trust and faith that spreads by scaring and preying on the weak 😬
All using circular logic contingent on believing in the first place
I wouldnt assume everyone who speaks to you wishes to “Jesus pill” you. It displays an unusual level of narcissism.
I don’t assume everyone who speaks to me wishes to Jesus pill me 😂
But when we’re in a conversation where i say i think it’s silly and other people are responding to spread His™️ wisdom, yes i might assume that those people could be
You're very welcome. Wouldn't you say, though, that your belief system is also circular? Based on the presupposition that there is no God? If you ask anyone what they believe, then ask why? And keep asking why? All the way to the topmost, ultimate thing-they -believe that leads to everything else, that topmost rung of the ladder is always "well, because believe this to be true." Every worldview's topmost truth claim is ultimately circular...
Sure, but to be clear I’m not saying definitively that there is no God. I simply live my life and try to be a good person, which if you’ve read this whole thread, you know is actually not exclusive with the lessons from the stories of Jesus. I have no idea what might be beyond the physical reality we experience. I don’t think anyone else does either.
Ultimately i refuse to live my life in fear, that’s what it boils down to. Doesn’t mean i’m gonna go around stealing and raping or anything
But there is no judgmental intentional creator to blame our ignorance on, however, the revolution is that deviance hiding behind false cored constructs of ignorance and faith, there is no tolerance for.
Well, consider this. Say a guy comes along whose birth fulfills hundreds of thousand-year-old prophecies (which he obviously couldn't have a hand in). Then, say this guy starts healing people miraculously just as other ancient prophecies said he would. Say, also, that this fellow says "I am God, and here's how you'll know I am who I say I am: they're going to kill me, but three days later I will rise again. I am telling you before it happens so that you'll know I am [who I say I am]." And then he does just that: tomb is empty. And, say there are at least 500 witnesses to this resurrection. And then suppose the entire world bases their measure of time on the birth of this one guy (what year is it?).
If this guy really is who he says he is, then wouldn't you accept that what he said was true about "the beyond" was true? How else could we know what's true about "the beyond" unless someone came from there to tell us about it? Neither you nor I can ever live long enough or travel far enough to experience every fact of reality to the point where we can say something true about "everything." We must rely, then, on someone beyond--someone who transcends our limitations. Say this someone was trying to figure out how he could prove to us convincingly that he was telling us the truth - "I know: I'll defeat the one enemy that none of them can: death itself. Surely, that will convince them." Think about it. What else could he have said or done that he didn't already do?
And if all that is acceptable, then we can know what's true about 'the beyond' simply because he has told us.
"The secret things belong to the Lord; but what he has told us belongs to us, and to our children, forever."
I do think it's a bit of a cop out to reject Christian theism because people who profess it are sinners. That's the whole point: we're all sinners in need of a saviour. If somone says he's never sinned, he's quite simply lying to himself. Jesus said the standard is perfection: "be perfect as my father in heaven is perfect." Paul reaffirmed it: "whoever is guilty in one point of the law is guilty of all of it."
Just because we have been justified by grace through faith does not mean we are suddenly perfect in practice (sanctified). We still sin. The gospel isn't "love God and love your neighbor"--that's the summary of the very law that *none* of us can keep. The gospel (good news) is that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners , and he did so by perfectly obeying the law even unto death. What we deserved was put on him and what he deserved is given to us. It's the "glorious exhange," the free gift of eternal life, granted to all who simply extend the hand of faith and say "yes! I want that! Dear God, thank you for saving a wretch like me!"
We deceive ourselves to think we're on solid ground if we've ever lied, stolen, lusted, hated, badmouthed, coveted, not glorified God for the good in our lives. It's all or nothing. There is no curve, there are no scales of "well, I did generally more good than bad," etc. Perfection.
And that's only available as a gift that comes from believing in Christ.
"I am the way, the truth, and life; no one comes to the father except through me."
Christians aren't perfect. Christ is perfect. That's why our hope is in him and not in our own perfection.
I'm choosing to opt out more than rejecting. I get what he taught. I feel that I can live my best life without a preacher telling me I'm going to hell if I don't tell him all of my darkest secrets. Man is man is man. We are ALL imperfect and will never be perfect until after we have exited the mortal coil, to borrow from Christianity. I, personally, don't know if I believe there is anything beyond where we are. That is not to say that I'm going to go around raping and killing and hating my fellow humans. I respect others. I respect your ability to choose what you believe. I appreciate it when I am given the same regard.
This conversation will not likely sway me but I do thank you all for not becoming rabid bible thumpers.