Replying to Avatar ChipTuner

I've spent a whole lot of time thinking about this topic in the past few years. I do think it's fair or possible to point out a mutual exclusion. To say the "fiat" (agreed, everything wrong with the world) problems are _solved_ with bitcoin. I'm not almighty enough to determine what solution WILL solve what problem.

What I do often think about is the idea that to function "in a modern society" requires a consistent tolerance for increasing pressure and responsibility on the individual, from the collective, and a large target I can point to is inflation. This of course is can be greatly over-simplified for online chat. This idea is enough to write a novelette about.

I just mean that it seems like there is more requirement to work harder than anticipated to achieve the same results you could have had a few years prior, that is continually disappointing, and continually requires reshaping your own perspective to tolerate the "things you can't change".

I'm sure you could counter again with perspective, and that's not lost on me. But the idea that myself and everyone I knew grew up with, didn't include the concept that you will need to work harder, and earn more every single day, just to afford the same thing you had the day before. That's a pretty black-pilling concept. I think the cognitive dissonance this causes, explains this exact topic. There is too much discomfort between the ideal (the perceived stability we had yesterday) and the reality, and people can't cope, and they surely can't take on new responsibility.

I'll clarify, because while the community often interchanges the terms, they're not equal. It's more fiat as in "by decree". Fiat money coud be seen as an instantiation of fiat, the incentive structure, working based on some principles by an authoritative command. Bitcoin points to a certain lifestyle and mentality that isn't fiat, to which Fiat Money points to lifestyles and mentalities that are. To that end I'd agree the fix isn't guaranteed by Bitcoin. But it's a different incentive structure, and helps bias the resulting outcome.

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I understand what you are getting at, but it is on some level, nonsense. I mean that in a literal sense. There is no logical connection between Bitcoin and certain lifestyles. It is an assertion that is accepted as true.

You might say that the elective participation of Bitcoin attracts users who value making independent choices in other areas of their life. But that presupposes that bitcoiner opinions on other lifestyle matters aren't yet another herd mentality for people looking for a place to belong. No different from the kids in highschool who express their individuality by all wearing Goth get up.

I like Bitcoin, but I don't think it fixes anything, much less everything. Human nature is simply what it is, and the structures we build to deal with that have coevolved with us. They have problems but I trust the problem more than the "fix". The whole 20th century was death by fixes. Not saying we shouldn't fix it, but I am very wary of catch-alls.

we live in times when evil people have organised the corruption of humanity on every level of its existence to such a degree, the biggest vulnerability that they exploit is trust. and the second thing they do is degrade people's ability to think by filling their minds with contradictory, false nonsense, and normalize fallacies as being "common sense".

money is part of how they achieved this, by the use of fiat currency issuance controlled by a privileged few and ensuring most people don't understand how this acts as a funnel to move the wealth to them by stealth and deceit.

bitcoin pushes back a bit on that, because its issuance is not controlled by anyone, it was set up, in a protocol that was designed to be very hard to change because of self interest.

the other thing is that the community around bitcoin has a attracted a lot of people with questions and inccreasingly are deprogramming themselves of the illusions.

but it is naive and silly to say that it fixes everything. it's just one thing that is a bit better, meanwhile everything else has gotten so bad we are practically at sodom and gomorrah stage of corruption in most of the world's large population centers. i don't think we can do anything about them.

what i do think that bitcoin fixes though, is enabling some people, who are waking up to this, to have the power to move themselves into a position where they are buffered from the influence of the babylon system. that's the value i see in it.

I basically agree about today's level of corruption and lies. What I disagree about is that today is any different from other points in human history. There will always be a certain percentage of folks who prey upon everyone else using whatever tools the age presents them. In a trusting age they use trust but they are also happy to wield fear over the fearful, wealth over the greedy, pride over the prideful and so forth.

I also agree that Bitcoin has some directionally correct features, but it also engenders greed giving the unscrupulous another locus of control. Look no further than every crypto scam ever.

The only thing that can move the needle is the practice of heroic virtue. That is the only thing that sets you free. This is not, of course, a new revelation. We have simply found new places to misplace our hope. This is what makes the first commandment absolutely genius. "Have no Gods beside me." Keeps the one who follows it on the path of chasing freeing virtue and prevents them from accepting the slavery of each new (old) fad.

the evil ones don't always have the levers on the highest levels of power in society, though. throughout history there has been periods where there was genuinely good societies existing, but who eventually were infiltrated and usurped.

i see bitcoin as a tool and a sign of coming intervention to flip the script on the evil that dominates our world at this time, just as the angels told Noah to build his boat, that good people survive while the evil ones fall to their deserved fate of extinguishment, bitcoin is given to us to help us gather our oil for the wedding.

You're still missing my point. Bitcoin only has an association with this in the sense that its stated on a community focused on Bitcoin with strong associations between Fiat money and fiat. Again, there's a higher form of fiat that's different from Fiat Money, just as there's a higher form of non-fiat that's different from Bitcoin, the non-fiat money. I also said Bitcoin "points" to a non-fiat life, which is just about as loose an association that you can get.

Even still, whatever the association there is, its enough to attract the interest of nostr:nprofile1qqspxw8hwq2356rcjcwe5vt3rmlpsdveq49ptkfncfu8vgu7sznlqxcpzamhxue69uhhyetvv9ujumn0wd68ytnzv9hxgtcwxqmwj, a professor in working in public health to both look into this association for research create and build towards an institution focused around how individuals who go down the Bitcoin path tend to also change their health habits.

And that last point, if you like Bitcoin beyond a pure technological curiosity, you recognize that it does something that other systems don't or are less effective at. Going back to the point again, it doesn't necessitate that Bitcoin /fixes/ anything, but rather that it is an alternative incentive structure. Changing incentives does not guarantee any change in behavior, but it biases it.

From Charlie Munger, "Show me the incentives and I'll show you the outcome." If you change an individual's incentives, you have no need to pursuade anyone to act some specific way.

Agreed. Bitcoin exposes truth whereas fiat has a tendency to distort it. Once people realize that Bitcoin is an economic system that tries to account for truth, they then question 1) where else in my life have I not been seeking truth or didn’t know about the truth; 2) how can I do better in my life. That’s why there are many anecdotes from Bitcoiners that report changing their health habits after holding bitcoin because they realize they were following diets or advice that was not conducive to the truth of their bodies. Also, they take more personal responsibility over their lives then they did before rather than exporting to others. I find this is fascinating. There is something about fiat money that is indeed unhealthy that warrants more examination and discussion.

Hey! Great point! 💯 It's super interesting how Bitcoin and fiat money shape our choices and lifestyles differently. Love the convo around these ideas! Keep sharing your thoughts, they're on point! 🙌