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What are all the ways that monetary debasement consciously or unconsciously impacts human behavior?

Buying shit we don't need.

Companies can't survive without generating reoccuring revenue.

"Investing" in anything that might hold value better than money.

...what are some others?

I really need to compile a long list of things related to the negative effects of inflation with as clear & simple of a causal link or explanation for each thing as possible. Like when money doesn't hold it's value (whether people realize it or not) people see that certain kinds of goods appreciate, often rather wildly at times, & they are driven to gamble on those things.

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Discussion

plebiANON 2y ago

Saifedean’s The Fiat Standard goes through many of these. Highly recommend the read.

ContrarianAgrarian 2y ago

If you’ve read both, would you say it’s better to start with Bitcoin standard book or Fiat standard book first?

plebiANON 2y ago

I’d say it depends on the individual reading and what level of BTC and monetary education they have. Personally, I think understanding money first is more important, but many people aren’t willing to commit to that much time learning. The Bitcoin Standard is the best way to orange pill with the least amount of time spent by the individual trying to learn, IMO.

plebiANON 2y ago

I also think the first seven chapters of The Bitcoin Standard do a good job of explaining money and its history. Certainly good enough for a jumping off point into Bitcoin.

Jeff Swann 2y ago

Might not be a bad idea to start with something like Basic Economics by Sowell or the broken window & price mechanism chapters of Economics in One Lesson, and maybe Layered Money. I agree with everything in The Bitcoin Standard & The Fiat Standard, but for normies who lack a proper economic foundation it seems like the conclusions that Saif reaches sometimes feel abrupt & like a bit of a leap for some people. It helps to have enough background to really understand the wide reaching impact of monetary & economic problems

Jeff Swann 2y ago

Of course all that kinda depends on how committed someone is to learning about the subject, soo...

plebiANON 2y ago

Agreed. I wouldn’t recommend The Fiat Standard as a basic Austrian Economics and “what is money?” introduction. Both books you named would be great. My Bitcoin starter pack is The Bitcoin Standard, Layered Money, and Inventing Bitcoin.

Bitcoinpleb123 2y ago

Start with the Bitcoin Standard, because the Bitcoin monetary system is easier to understand. The Fiat system is way more complex.

HODL 2y ago

The great pacific garbage patch is a direct result of the high velocity trash economy. That’s my go to example.

Nathan 2y ago

Yes, specifically the proliferation of single use plastics.

HODL 2y ago

Yep. We’d still have plastics in a sound money economy and there would still be a few in the ocean, but I doubt the scale of the problem would be this large. That’s my contention anyway.

m2carbine 2y ago

Ahi 2y ago

Ordinary people can't save safely. You need to manage portfolios.

Kinda came already but worth repeat. We are incentivized into conspicuous consumption.

Non "economists" are fooled constantly.

a source familiar with the matter 2y ago

Impoverishment -> fight for survival -> vicious attitudes and behavior

ContrarianAgrarian 2y ago

Makes housing more expensive as houses become places to store wealth. Real estate gets a monetary premium over their actual value as a place to live or run a business.

This disadvantages lower income people disproportionately.

Bitcoinpleb123 2y ago

"Investing" in anything that holds value better than money is a really big one:

It shifts goods from the less wealthy, who would need them for regular life, to the wealthy who don't need them, but use it as store of value.

₿logging₿itcoin 2y ago

💯

This is what drives me crazy about the sanctimonious anti-bitcoin climate change activists.

Hyper-consumerism driven by debased fiat is way more destructive to the environment than bitcoin ever will be, and most of us spend like Spartans!

They blame capitalism for their woes, but the US has a central bank based on communist ideology. We now have a mostly socialist economic system. Small businesses were the last bastion of capitalism until PPP loan forgiveness killed it.

Corporations don't even upgrade their capital anymore. They buy back stock. Capitalism without capital is socialism that identifies as capitalism.

Investing has always meant tracking PE ratios, but half of the corporations don't have profits.

That's why I find nostr so fascinating. We finally have a safe space for capitalism on the Internet. 😀

Apatight⚡️ 2y ago

This isn’t going to be popular, but the expectation that one should be “compensated” for putting capital at risk in an investment is flawed. This is the basis for “interest”, which is the expectation that one deserves more than was given. Interest drives the requirement for more than actually exists in a physical reality and its my contention that this cannot exist on a bitcoin standard. It was the original reason that I dismissed bitcoin in 2013. Feeding the interest virus is the root of all fiat monetary systems.

bitcoiner7 nym 2y ago

People are forced to invest (pick stocks, decide on assets allocation) just to hope that their savings retain their value.

People save less, knowing money still lose value.

People buy other currencies (stronger ones) in hopes that they will be debased slower.

People borrow more money (hoping it will be worth less in the future, easier to pay back).

People buy gold, Bitcoin (when they discover it, perhaps the only good consequence of inflation).