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The whole Zelensky White House thing just felt like Trump signaling good faith to Putin. Or else it wouldn’t be public.

So, publicity stunt to get on a good footing with Putin. Makes sense.

I watched the whole thing, the longer version. For most of it Trump thinks they already have an agreement. They plan to eat in the East Room and sign it after eating. But when Zelensky speaks, what he says isn't quite making sense to Trump. And vice versa (Zelensky squirrles up his face numerous times). And only after a lot of statements it seems both of them are more and more uncomfortable and starting to realize they are not actually on the same page. Then JD vance picks a fight and Trump already feeling these things (and supressing them for the sake of the deal) realizes the deal isn't happening as he envisioned and goes ahead and says what he really thinks.

I don't think any of this was planned to happen that way.

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Discussion

Mike Dilger ☑️ 10mo ago

In fact I suspect some people set them up to make them think they were on the same page and getting a deal, lied to both of them, and they only found out they were not on the same page during the press conference. Their trickery failed.

Séimí Mac Síomón 10mo ago

The plan was to string America along into providing security guarantees by essentially bribing them with the 'mineral deal', while Europe went about setting up it's 'alternative peace plan' but it fell apart.

HoloKat 10mo ago

That would make Zelensky retarded or what? Why would he pick a fight with Trump?

Mike Dilger ☑️ 10mo ago

What?

SLCW 10mo ago

He didn't pick a fight with anyone. He rightly described the situation on the ground in his country, and expressed his apprehension with making a deal with Putin given Putin's history of reneging of his seals with Ukraine. A history that has consistently led to the deaths of more Ukrainians. And when he called Putin a dictator, a terrorist, and a murderer (all truth accusations), that's when Trump lost his mind. He completely ignored the context and facts surrounding what Zelenskyy was saying, and acted like Zelenskyy had just attacked his best friend. Remember, Ukraine is supposed to be our ally, and Russia is supposed to be our adversary (and has been since the 50s). To put what happened on Zelenskyy is incredibly dishonest, and ignores the context Zelenskyy was speaking, and the objective facts he laid down.

HoloKat 10mo ago

So he threw a wrench in the deal. Still doesn’t explain why it’s public. It’s as if Trump knew that would be one of the outcomes. In any case he gained some points with Putin.

SLCW 10mo ago

I think you're not getting that earning points with Putin isn't a desired or admirable goal. It's actually the opposite.

Mike Dilger ☑️ 10mo ago

I think Zelensky indeed did state his position and make his case. And from an idealistic view, Zelensky is right. Russia invaded, Russia can't be trusted to hold to an agreement (violating the Budapest memorandum among others), etc.

What is very hard but necessary for the leader of a sovereign state is that they must judge the balance of power and not cling so tightly to right and wrong. When you are right and your enemy is wrong, but your enemy is far more powerful than you are, you need to befriend them anyways. And when America gets zero benefit from being involved, and has already spent lots of money helping out, and you want them to help you more, and you have no cards, nothing to trade for their help, then you had better offer up some cards (minerals) and you had better get down on your knees and kiss their boots. Zelensky is an idealistic child (as are many people on nostr, as was I most of my life).

Someone must have misled Zelenskyy into thinking that Trump was going to stand up to Russia for him. But if Zelensky had paid any attention to who Trump is at all, he would already have known that was an impossible hope.

HoloKat 10mo ago

Exactly.

SLCW 10mo ago

That's for Zelenskyy and Ukraine to decide. It's not the prerogative of Trump to decide the fate of Ukraine, or decide what Ukraine is going to give up to his buddy Putin who after 50+ years of adversarial relations is suddenly our friend, and people who have drank the Trump Kool-aid have magically decided is reasonable.

HoloKat 10mo ago

There’s not one party at play in US. Trump is likely facing internal pressures to let the war carry on - from the same people who enabled it all along.

Séimí Mac Síomón 10mo ago

Ukraine can't decide anything, they can't even have an election XD

HoloKat 10mo ago

Yeah what’s up with that …

Séimí Mac Síomón 10mo ago

Blackrock and various investors have more of a say in the fate of Ukraine than the cannon fodder that are kidnapped by press gangs and pushed to the front lines.

HoloKat 10mo ago

The director of the CIA back in the 90s stated that if Russia was pushed by nearby countries joining NATO, we’d be in this exact situation we are in today. But the powers that be ignored him and here we are.

Séimí Mac Síomón 10mo ago

Who renaged on the Istanbul agreement?

wipedroot 10mo ago

No one can propose Kremlin talking points to Ukraine Ivan, this ends when the Gremlin in the Kremlin decides to pull the Orcs back to Moscow