Replying to Avatar HoloKat

In case anyone is still confused about nuts or what it means and why we always talk about it (me today haha), here is my know-nothing dummy explanation and why this is a big deal IMO:

Cashu is an ecash protocol(is this correct?) created by nostr:npub12rv5lskctqxxs2c8rf2zlzc7xx3qpvzs3w4etgemauy9thegr43sf485vg

People are calling them nuts because cashews are nuts... get it?

The terminology is irrelevant. They can be called tokens, air, water, chicken teriyaki.. it really doesn't matter! What matter is that this is a Layer 3 payment system that transfers tokens at the speed of light (or so I think). Lightning being layer 2, and bitcoin being layer 1.

The reason why this is a significant development is because now everyone has a cashu address. Thanks to amazing work by the legendary nostr:npub1mhcr4j594hsrnen594d7700n2t03n8gdx83zhxzculk6sh9nhwlq7uc226 , if you go to npub.cash you can see that you already have an address to receive these layer 3 tokens, which just happen to be easily redeemable into lightning. This means that any new person who joins nostr automatically has (custodial) layer 3 payment access, which can swap into layer 2 and into layer 1 and into fiat if need be.

I don't know any of the underlying mechanics of this, I am not a genius like nostr:npub12rv5lskctqxxs2c8rf2zlzc7xx3qpvzs3w4etgemauy9thegr43sf485vg and what I have described could be incorrect, but it sure feels like this is roughly how things work.

Nuts are custodial, meaning a mint is holding your balance and can look up your npub to see if you have some. Once called upon, these nuts can be sent to another nutter (cashu wallet) or directly to a lightning address! This interoperability makes everyone a layer 2 user. All we need is a clever UX toggle / button / terminology to make it really obvious.

IF this were to be turned into a library that devs could include in their client code and "it just works", THEN it could be a game changer! No more directing people on how to get a wallet right as they join. They can experience the magic of bitcoin indirectly via layer 3 > layer 2 transfer all without knowing anything (as long as they can get on nostr).

In practice, this means anyone joining an audio nest, a zapstream, a flare.pub can automatically get paid. Yes, it's just tokens, and yes it's centralized and custodial, BUT, they see the value instantly and are only a click away from digging deeper. It's a STEPPING STONE that makes it significantly easier to get onboarded into the new paradigm.

I have not been this excited since the discovery of nostr itself! If I'm mistaken somehow, or don't understand things correctly, please let me know and forgive my dumbass 🤣 And if this means what I think it means, then let's make magic happen!

I've been looking into this and while I'll always seek to self-custody, what instantly struck me as a couple of amazing features were:

- The improvements in custody vs LN custody. I'd rather the coins be lost than stolen, this is a key difference! I'm growingly of the mind that custody has a place, but LN custody always seemed botched. eCash does it properly, your tokens are assigned to you and only you.

- Offline payments.

I'm sure there are more, but still looking into it.

I do wonder though, this effectively makes Cashu a layer 3 protocol - But having LN as a pre-requisite hop will hurt adoption. Can't wait to see direct on-chain to ecash ramps.

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Technically the user never needs to comprehend L3 or L2. "Get your money" "cash out your money"

Absolutely, just like the TCP/IP stack, I understand we want to blur the concept of layers as we smoothen out the UX.

My thinking is more in-line with having one layer as a pre-req to another.

Ideally, users will be able to on-ramp directly to ecash for day-to-day spending, Lightning (as in L2) only if they're adamant on self-custody and the timechain for their larger stash and to avoid liquidity issues, but I think Lightning should be an if, not a must. That, or pretty much all Lightning custodians implement the likes of cashu instead.

Otherwise we end up with:

- What's the point of current Lightning custodians if cashu just does it better?

- Is their only advantage at that point the fact that there's less onboarding friction? (one less "layer" to go through)