The allure of "clean" design is just an expression of the desire to not think, not be responsible and just be guided by an external powerful force. Just copy what Instagram is doing and let Mark Zuckerberg and the pedophiles guide you, feed you the right content, and then you just lie in your bed with your phone in hands, clicking the single button, in the cleanest possible interface, very easy for the normies and for me and you, the apex of UX and human civilization.
Discussion
I'm not a fan of refinement culture, either. Never was
I understand your sentiment, but you are wrong. When you cook today you are not hunting for the food, you are not worried about your crops, you are functioning at a high level. It is analogous to what you are saying. Please reconsider and remove emotions from the equation. 🐶🐾🫡🫂
I think there is also a growing appeal of 'old internet' aesthetics and shed tinkery ramshackleness. Angelfire revival part 2 here we go;)
But not just interface. A thumbnail on YouTube which doesnt use the now ubiquitous 'YOUTUBE THUMBAIL!!!' stylings stands out way more amongst the crowd.
exit the great dumbing down.
Nevertheless I really like the concept of your mom app. Especially when considering it as a gateway to a sovereign social media experience.
People like things simple - it doesn’t make sense to fight reality.
We already have Nostr apps for the thinkers and tinkerers, maybe it’s time for an app that targets people who like things simple.
Not necessarily the same, but this reminds me of how much joy I get from using my ThinkPad (even the newer one) vs a 'sleek' MacBook Air. It's bulkier, heavier, and has far less battery life, yet I genuinely enjoy it more. It doesn't treat me like a moron and respects that my needs aren't just what Apple tells me my needs are. I even run Fedora on it with ease. I've noticed that I like products that give me choice instead of spoonfeeding me whatever the manufacturer thinks I should have.
For this very reason I still have my x220 ready to go on the desk, and sometimes I boot it just for the joy of using it.
I see your point, but wouldn't we have the best of both worlds if things were mostly as sleek as Apple likes to make them, without the moronic aspects of it? MacBook Airs with actual ports, charging ports on the magic mouse that are in the right place, user Freedom to choose. No reason why we should have to choose between one or the other. They aren't mutually exclusive.
I think the MBP Retinas were perfect. It had the ports, the amazing screen and battery, perfect balance between size and weight. Are you telling me Apple couldn't have kept and improved on that model? Kept the ports, upgradability, etc.
I am dealing in the realm of the imaginary, sure you could compare the state of things as they currently are and make your judgement. Indeed, that is the choice of many. I am not doing that. I am invitating you to explore the possibility of what could be, should Apple have chosen to do differently.
At its most basic level, there is no physical impediment preventing Apple - or Nostr developers - from choosing the best of both worlds. Apple, however, is bound by more constraints than physical reality. This certainly helped push them in the direction they went.
My point is Nostr developers are not bound by these other constraints, and therefore have no impediments (other than their personal opinions, biases and their imagination) preventing them from choosing a best of both worlds' approach. Sure you and I could have different opinions of what that would mean, and yes we'd have to make concessions here and there, but hopefully you get my point.
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On a different note, personally I think ThinkPads look horrible. They are bulky, their keys look uneven, their trackpads (last i checked) were small af and had buttons, they have that ugly red dot on them, etc. Some ppl really love them and that is fine, but I have the feeling that a considerable portion of those, wouldn't love them as much if Apple didn't do some of the things you illustrated. Despite not being the focus of my comment, and me not agreeing with all he says (specially his take on asahi) I will leave this here:
Can you disclose what you were doing when this thought occurred to you?
its actually pretty hard and complex to keep things simple.
In a way I disagree with you. As I see it, clean design is a way for the app NOT to stand in the way of what the user wants to do. It is very easy to throw everything into an app with little polish and leave it to the user to rummage through the resulting mess to find what they want.
I am all for creating new things, and agree we shouldn't copy things for the sake of copying; we should copy what works for a desired purpose. As it already is, Nostr and its concepts can be complex enough to most people that we don't need bad UX aiding that.
We can have good looking clients that respect user freedom/choice and don't impose their will down user's throats.
make interface design great again
I think you are critiquing sterile design, and I agree with that.
A clean design is not necessarily a sterile design and can look quite different depending on the vision.
Clean design to me is a balanced design, not too cluttered. Some menus need to be complex and have an array of important options available. That structure should consider usability first, then design.
1. Usability
2. Visual design, without sacrificing 1.
With usability I'm referring to fast and easy workflows where users are not running a tough obstacle course. There should be a general attitude of sympathy for users that interact with the UI a lot.
Visual design can go wild as long as the usability is good. Clean visual design involves un my view for example adhering to a chosen thematic style. Mixing styles can quickly feel unbalanced.
Sounds reasonable, but do you think this grand theory of design has any utility? In the end design is just a gut feeling, no?
Yes, it kinda boils down to gut feeling.
Also it depends what something is used for. A menu in a workplace or a game needs to be efficient due to its high usage. Thin scroll lists can be hell for players using a mouse on screen, while it may work ok on a tablet or phone.
Then, scrolling is dependent on the number of items to scroll through. It works great for quick scrolls but if the list is long enough, it is no longer efficient. That which is not efficient will be skipped. So there is a scroll horizon at some point, past which few will thread.😄
Just my ramblings.
Gut feeling works fine too.
I agree.
Permit me expand the list of priorities:
1 Accessibility
2 Usability
3 Effectiveness
4 Visual appealing
The rule is simple: each point must add value to the previous one, without sacrificing anything.
There are slight exceptions, related to some contexts/targets, of course. For example sometimes point #4 affects the pleasure of using a product, and thus the effectiveness of user actions.
Good overview.
Yes, accessibility would mean that the user is not prevented from accessing what they should be able to access. This would overlap with general bug fixing and problem solving for the base functionality.
Agreed that usability comes before effectiveness. Effectiveness involves among other things switching between menus and engaging in a work flow.
Visual design: make it appealing and easy to interpret from a user perspective, assuming varying degrees of familiarity with what is happening under the hood.
cry harder sir
100% agree! We should rebuild #nostr in ActionScript and Flash!