Is there a simple solution to #privacy on #bitcoin that doesn't involve doing some weird #lightning gymnastics that are prone to errors?
Discussion
No
Depending your goal
Coinjoin. Many options, each with their own tradeoffs.
none of them good
What's wrong with joinmarket?
well
poor UX so theres low liquidity and a small anonset,
which also leads to bad Sybil resistance (also a result of the maker/taker model),
and mixes have bee straight up unwound.
JM is better than nothing, but its not great.
Please link the unwound joinmarket transaction. Last I checked there was still a 100s btc bounty for unwinding some dudes stolen btc.
Unless you have a real life example of someone getting footgunned by joinmarket your points are moot.
https://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/69duq9/50_bounty_for_anybody_recovering_445_btc_stolen/
they absolutely are not moot.
anonset matters.
Sybil resistance matters.
explain to me how a user can measure the privacy gained by a JM coinjoin.
also
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1609980.msg16168594#msg16168594
also I think Eego got into this on Liveras pod here
but may be misremembering
You're a little retarded. Did you even read the first reply to your 8 year old link? It's well documented that one coinjoin is insuffiecient for privacy (https://github.com/JoinMarket-Org/joinmarket-clientserver/blob/master/docs/USAGE.md#try-out-a-coinjoin-using-sendpaymentpy).
>explain to me how a user can measure the privacy gained by a JM coinjoin
Someone stole 445 btc and used joinmarket to mix it. The theft victim offered half the btc if anyone could unmix it. No one could.
oh so what you MEANT to say was
"CJs can be unwound and its well documented,
but if you do enough of them you PROBABLY have reasonable privacy guarantees"
also
one bounty doesnt prove shit.
we need good privacy guarantees at scale.
not this "well then tell me who owns this UTXO" horseshit
Are you aware of any mixing protocol anywhere that is sufficient with just one round?
the whole point of a proper Zerolink implementation is there's no way to know which input matches which output.
even after a single mix.
as I understand it, Wasabi didnt end up implementing it completely, but Whirlpool did (with modifications).
this is not to shit on JM, just that people know the tradeoffs.
you can get reasonable privacy with JM.
probably.
its all a probability game.
oh you'll find out alright
Buy P2P
Robosats
Bisq
HodlHodl
I tried Bisq and found no one in my area, I bet they hardly know how to buy from exchanges, let alone p2p
Yea the p2p route takes some effort because of low volume/liquidity robosats is pretty good for buying p2p or can do swaps on robosats or could use a DEX to swap into Monero. Mixing is ok but not perfect and fees can be high. So in short no there isn’t any easy privacy solution currently.
Thanks for the tips. I think privacy needs to be sorted out before #bitcoin becomes legal tender, because I damn well know governments will scrutinize the shit out of on-chain activities
Yes and no. Privacy is the biggest issue on chain IMO. If privacy is too good government will not adopt as legal tender. It would not be in THIER interest. I don’t want it to be legal tender I just want privacy to be better. Governments will not willingly give up control.
Swap into liquid and back out using nostr:nprofile1qqsqcdcltmv4qanpx3p7svcufdsg9rkk00x7l2sknra4e6whkv59l7cppemhxue69uhkummn9ekx7mp0qythwumn8ghj7un9d3shjtnswf5k6ctv9ehx2ap0qywhwumn8ghj7mn0wd68ytnzd96xxmmfdejhytnnda3kjctv9uke3478 and or nostr:nprofile1qqst4qyeqenw7zm0fwjsty68h6cnys5jre2xd8ngqpjv5a2j26s78fspzemhxue69uhhyetvv9ujucm0d9hx7uewd9hj75a0pev ?
I haven't looked into liquid yet because lightning was complicated enough for me. Thanks for the input
Not really. I tried giving coinjoins another shot recently, but spent ~$25 after just two rounds. Then a few days after news dropped that both Wabisabi and Whirlpool had major deanon vulnerabilities that hadn't been addressed.
Went back to swapping for Monero p2p. Wait and swap back out in different amounts. Simplest way imo.