I noticed something yesterday. I noticed that in several pictures of dead bodies that were killed by Hamas, the bodies were all men. And I noticed videos of women being held alive. And I wondered "are Hamas really indiscriminately killing women and children and beheading children?" So I started searching for all the video and photo evidence. Someone pointed me to Ben Shapiro's podcasts which have been showing lots of these as a way to prove who Hamas is, so I looked through all of that. Far too much time, and really hard to watch all that. But I felt it was important (I kept the sound off - I didn't want to be influenced by his claims).

What I discovered is that there isn't any hard video evidence of women or children being killed by Hamas. There are two pieces of evidence that maybe they were, but not conclusive, and I'll describe those below.

I not defending the killing of civilians. But in truth, I cannot know if the plain clothed men who were killed were civilians or not, all I can tell is that they were in plain clothes. So it is possible Hamas are engaging in war according to the rules of war. I doubt it's quite that clean, I think maybe they are killing civilian men, but I won't pass judgement without solid evidence.

The statement "when people tell you who they are, believe them" is not evidence. People say all kinds of dumb shit that they don't back up.

We never saw evidence of the beheaded babies.

We never saw bodies of the rave dancers. I saw a picture that claimed to be, that looked like clothing layed out, not even bodies just clothing, and another of busted up cars, and a video of someone paragliding in. But not killing, no bodies, not even a report of which sex was killed.

Lots of people saying things, making claims, is not evidence. I have to ignore all the stories.

The woman in the truck with a fair amount of skin showing and blood, and a leg bent at an odd angle: she does not seem like she was killed by being shot, because to bend the leg like that takes a lot of mechanical force. The most likely thing to cause such force is a vehicle. So she was involved in some automobile accident. And why would they take her somewhere in a truck? Why not just leave her dead body on the ground? Maybe they were taking her to a hospital/morgue. Inconclusive that they killed her, because normally they would have just shot her.

Why do we have no videos of dead women or children who were clearly shot? There are plenty of men who were clearly shot.

Beheading a dead man ... I'm not bothered by that. Once someone is dead, they're just meat. I'm all too familiar with that as I slaughter sheep on my farm. It's the killing that I'm bothered by, not what people do with the dead meat.

The other evidence was 4 women being escorted somewhere. Then a second video of the four women laying down near a path by a beach or other sandy area. They demonstrated by clothing colors that they were the same four women. There was no video connecting these two, where the women were allegedly killed. The second video does not show any blood or bullet wounds, and the women appear to be lying in normal poses. It is possible that they were "released" and the soldiers had them lie face down and count to one-thousand, to make sure the soldiers weren't followed by these women.

I don't know the truth of any of this, but I thought it was interesting that I can't find clear hard evidence of the claims.

On the other side, there is lots of videos of burnt live babies, burnt dead babies, etc, and carpet bombing that clearly is killing civilians.

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It looks like you’re writing a letter!

Lol 😆

Thanks for looking into it so I didn't have to. I wondered if photos of that particular claim were being circulated or whether it was hearsay. The thing is, even if it's all true, it's all still a psyop because the use the facts (or rumors) are being put to is political manipulation. So tired of it all. The best thing we can do is refuse to be manipulated, which nostr is actually good for at this point in time.

It was hard to do. I've lost sleep over it. Even if there are some sort of rules to it, war is a horrible thing, and I'm emotionally and physically drained. I don't think I'll be paying any more attention to it for a while.

🫂

If Israel wanted to lie about the situation, they could easily have staged things, made fake evidence. But we don't see it.

So I think this isn't so much propaganda as it is people getting carried away, being racist, jumping to conclusions, and not verifying things.

People getting carried away and jumping to conclusions... never. I refuse to believe it...

You're probably right. I stand corrected. There is indeed fake-evidence propaganda. Ben Shapiro was just caught passing off an AI generated image as a burnt Israeli baby.

There is only one conclusion:

“How tragic. 😭”

🫂

I don't understand your point. It is natural for any militants to kill women and children. It's not a systematic approach, of course, but it happens.

The other thing is who is using it and for what purpose.

are you seriously suggesting that it isn't worth killing another 100 million people in WW3 just because there may have been a dozen or so women and children killed in Israel - about as many as get killed in traffic accidents on average in ONE HOUR ?

why do you want to see evidence of atrocities before starting WW3 ?

isn't a word of a Jew like Shapiro good enough for you ?

International Jews started WW2 by declaring war on Germany with the ultimate goal of establishing Israel.

Now it's time for WW3 to finish what WW2 started and eliminate the last enemies of Israel like Iran !

Be a good goy and die for Israel !

and WTF is wrong with nostr:npub1jlrs53pkdfjnts29kveljul2sm0actt6n8dxrrzqcersttvcuv3qdjynqn somebody please tell him we Jews are God's chosen people and his job as a Christ Cuck is to suck our balls !

I've seen video with lots of dead people in the ground. not clearly distinguishable as woman or children, the only still moving guy who was shot was a man.

200y ago, there were no videos.

maybe in a few decades, fakes/AI will be so good / easy than we will not trust ANY video as proof.

we should be careful before claiming 'we need to see to believe'

both sides fight a propaganda war

Atrocities may increase support to Israel in the west AND to Hamas in the muslim word (or even in the sectors of the west...)

Hamas needs to show results - they got a lot of $$$ "to destroy Israel". Not showing bodies, would be a loss of face.

Israel needs to justify the future civilian casualties in Gaza. even IF Hamas did not use human shields, there is no victimless urban warfare, and no way to get Hamas without urban warfare.

Maybe, Hamas do not show rapes or murdering of children to avoid alienating supporters, some kind of 'balanced gore policy'?

And Israel do not show them (besides the obvious reasons) to avoid alienating viewers - Israel propaganda says "keep looking".

Or, those videos exist but do not go viral in the internet for obvious reasons? Would you post it if you had one?

finally.. I am really surprised to not see more beheadings. 'strike them in the neck' is in the koran, it is the usual way to killing infidels, to 'strike terror in their hearts'. Isis did it by the book, literally. Although... I understand that in a military operation shooting should be prefered as it is faster. even the 2 israelis shot in response to bombings were not beheaded, may be for similar reasons.

Apparently the adult men in civilian clothes that I thought might have been civilians are claimed by Hamas sources to have been soldiers raided in their sleeping quarters:

https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/hamas-deployed-specialised-units-attack-israel-says-source-2023-10-09/

"The commandoes attacked the first Israeli defence lines, raided sleeping quarters of soldiers and seized bases and the headquarters of Israel's military operation for southern Gaza, the source said."

https://edition.cnn.com/2023/10/12/middleeast/israel-hamas-beheading-claims-intl/index.html

"CNN has pored through hundreds of hours of media posted online attempting to corroborate accounts of atrocities committed by Hamas. In one video, which CNN determined to be authentic but has not been able to geolocate, an assailant attacks an injured man with a garden tool in an attempt to behead him. But CNN has not seen anything that would appear to confirm the claims of decapitated children.

CNN also visited the ransacked ruins of Kfar Aza on Tuesday and saw no evidence of beheaded youths. Israeli officials have not released any photographs of the incident either."

From same article:

"Al-Risheq’s claim that Hamas did not attack women is demonstrably false. Women, children and the elderly at kibbutzim like Kfar Aza and Be’eri and were killed during the surprise attack. Videos posted online verified by CNN show women who were attending the music festival targeted by the group’s gunmen being kidnapped."

This is a squabble over the definition of "attack." Hamas took women under arrest and detained them (while they aparently killed the men). I don't see how this makes the claim that they did not attack women "demonstrably false" If it is demonstrably false, CNN doesn't say how so. Western military detains innocent people in war zones too. "Kidnapped" is a weasel word.

I JUST REREAD THAT and I missed the first sentence. OK. CNN claims to have verified women, children, and elderly were killed during the suprise attack. That's the strongest evidence I've seen so far, albeit far short of video evidence.

I watched some reporting from a local news station here in Australia (7news) and they showed dead women at least in the broadcast. So, I think it has well happened by Hamas. No grand conspiracy by Israel, or whatever was alluded to earlier.

You are then entitled to think that based on what you saw. I haven't seen it yet. I will indeed believe it when I see it, I don't take a side, I just need to hold stories to account to be sure we are getting at the truth.