I don't think I've decided anything for anyone. Ive only made an observation I believe to be true.
Discussion
Do you think a woman that is raped and then can't get an abortion because it's been made illegal feels empowered? How about a teenager that gets pregnant and has to completely reorganize their life and future plans, do you think they feel empowered? Getting pregnant and having kids is I'm sure very empowering for those who choose it, but not all women want that and some don't get the choice.
Firstly, you are arguing on the fringes.
Secondly, why on earth would you kill a child for the sins of the father?
Third, teen pregnancies are by choice, just as every other pregnancy except rape. You consent to potentially making a baby when you consent to sex. It should go without saying that obviously if the mothers life would be at physical risk, then her life take priority over the child's and it is her choice to proceed at her own risk or terminate. This is obviously an awful choice for anyone to have to make. There is also the matter of age of consent. Again, the baby in question is not liable for his own creation. You cannot take it's life for the mistake of the parents engaging in sex or the grandparents who failed to inculcate values and education that prevent teen pregnancy.
I don't see how these have to do with womens empowerment. You are now argung for less responsibility for individual actions.
I'm pretty sure there is going to be a fundamental disagreement between us about what constitutes a child. I'm my opinion a small clump of cells is not yet a person and therefore there is nothing wrong with terminating it before it becomes a person. That is a better option than having a child that is unwanted or that the mother does not have the resources to properly care for.
I want to get back to your original post because otherwise we will be here all day going around in circles. You call empowering women virtue signaling. To me empowering women is about giving them choices.
I am reading between the lines of your posts and I think you are a misogynist. The arguments I am making are not about women, they are about you and your very narrow view of women's role in society. I don't think having children puts them in a subservient role, but I think you want them in a subservient role and forcing them to have children is a means to that end. If this were not the case you wouldn't be against empowering women to do what they want.
You make a blanket statement that having children is the most empowering thing a woman can do. You do not seem to think of them as individuals when you say this. Every woman is different and has her own wants and desires. Your experience is completely anecdotal yet you apply it to everyone.
You can respond if you want, but I'm done.
I have views about what mens role in society is too.
If a fetus is not a person, what is it? Can you define "person" in the argument?
I said clump of cells, not fetus. The fetal stage begins at 10 weeks. Women usually find out they are pregnant at 6 weeks. There's a 4 week window when I think abortion should be definitely be allowed. I'm not willing to debate this further.
Because you know what the truth is. The "clump of cells" is a developing human being. Or what most people would calla "person" by every definition of the word. There is no argument as to when life begins. The truth is that life begins at conception. All science agrees with that fact. It's not really up for debate.
I never said the cells weren't life or if I did that was a mistake. I said the cells are not a person.
I don't want to discuss it because I think we are going to have different definitions for things, as well as different moral beliefs. We are essentially going to be speaking different languages and it will be a waste of time.
It doesn't matter what stage of development it is in. It's alive and it has its own DNA from conception. It's another human being because it's certainly not any other race. So an alive individual human being is not a person. So what is? I'm asking you because that's the disagreement.
Let me just explain why I am pro-choice:
I don't think human life is all that sacred. By that I mean every potential person to be conceived shouldn't automatically have the right to be born. Especially if by giving that right to the embryo it strips the woman of her rights and autonomy.
That doesn't mean I lack empathy or don't care about human suffering. My pro choice stance is about preventing suffering by keeping unwanted children from ever existing. Every child deserves to be born into a loving family. Forcing a woman to have a child they may not want will likely rob that child of that opportunity.
It also forces the woman into a role she may not be ready for. Women should be able to decide when they have a child, both will be better off if the child is planned. Women can be sure they are at a point in life where they can provide the best future for the child if they have the option to abort if they get pregnant before they are ready. If they get pregnant unexpectedly they will be forced to adjust their whole life around the massive responsibility of caring for a child. They may have to give up their educational and career aspirations. They may settle for a partner that they normally would not have seen as worthy to have children with.
I could go on but I really don't want to. This whole topic is a minefield and I think it boils down to that some people think every human life is sacred and deserves a chance and I don't think that. Their beliefs are often rooted in religion and that's where all rational thought goes out the window. Are you religious? Because if so then we should switch over to talking about that because I think that's the mistaken belief that many bad beliefs stem from.
I disagree completely.
