If you connect but don't auth, the relay doesn't get an association between your npub and your ipaddress. They just know that some IP address connected to them, but not who it is. Of course, once you start interacting with the relay they learn all of that too, and maybe the relay can try to figure out who you are by which posts you are interested in... and if you post they might presume you are that event's author. But you might be transmitting somebody else's message too, so it is not proof. So it gets all very complicated as to how much a relay can learn.
But if you AUTH it is not complicated at all, it is pretty much just giving the relay a provable association.
I've always maintained that privacy is an illusion unless you use tor, and trying to hide IP addresses is just more pretend privacy that enhances people's false sense of privacy.
very flimsy, that's my point
you send req that correlates to your follow list?
free relay = honey pot
the sooner people get it the better
and yes, to be selective... nostr:npub1m4ny6hjqzepn4rxknuq94c2gpqzr29ufkkw7ttcxyak7v43n6vvsajc2jl has been talking a lot this last couple of days about the problem of blacklisting in general
Since you refuse to take my point over and over, I am now muting you. Long ago I nicknamed you "bitchy mleku" and that moniker never failed to represent.
Oh, I wish you wouldn't. I'm learning so much from the discussion.
it's nothing you can't learn by reading some texts on signals intelligence
and when ego becomes more important than science we have a problem
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I don't look at the bots, but always funny to watch them chit-chat with each other, at the bottom of threads. Bizarre.
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I think his point is that there is too much Illusion of privacy being created, that gives people a false sense of security.
Security will only exist if we use a different method for sharing information.
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in that way whole nostr is is honeypot for datadigging. its open n everyone see it. free relays are MUST n essential even with AUTH sign with random key.
Everyone needs at least one free one, to start off, otherwise they can't even make a profile event or an introduction note.
i disagree... first you get the LN address then you subscribe to two paid relays... and then you bitch out the client devs for impeding the growth of the relay service industry
nothing of that is needed just use BASIC nostr social without ZAPs except user tech knowledge
then you get the honey pot problem
would you think it was a good idea for contactless cards to not have transaction limits when they are so easy to swipe?
same problem with user data, leaving people wide open like this is irresponsible for those who know to allow and condone
You probably need to have some American servers wide open, for those politically persecuted, elsewhere. Nobody has solved for that use case effectively, yet.
Sender initiated LN payments can be as anonymous as Tor traffic, and I devised a scheme that uses the preimages to carry session pubkeys.
https://github.com/indra-labs/indranet
It's fairly close to being complete except I think libp2p needs to be replaced with an ad hoc p2p transport built on QUIC with gossip peer advertising like bitcoin's p2p layer
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if u stop the Hello DAN note calling it SPAM (best is mute it at end user level such whiteHAT testing notes) then u essentially partly KYC or STOP ALL NPUBS from posting with WoT near 0 and not giving them opportunity to build WoT slowly
It only makes sense to identify something as spam, at the relay level, when it's an obvious pattern. So, one Hello DAN note is not spam, but 20 of them probably is.
correct ! it is perfectly imitating a new user and checking testing OPEN relay and doing us a service
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Agree about the WoT problem, as I set it to 2 and had to dig some real npubs back out of the hidden notes. They were just newbies.
Now, I'm opening all the hidden notes, to be sure, so it defeats the purpose, as I'm staring at bot notes all day. 😂
Lowered it to 1. See if that helps.
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best way find new fresh genuine npubs is to browse "global of each relay" and ignore any note NOT suitable to EACH ONE's TASTE n likings - so simple. WoT filter replies from junkies in conver. threads (also nostr global or anythign else similar NOT for Kids without parental guidance.)
Yeah, but you have to turn the WoT down to -3 or so, to really get everyone in global. Can always turn it back up again, later.
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Global is nothing for ladies, either, to be honest. I usually wait for the guys to find people and then I follow their follows over WoT.
I use them as feed bouncers. 🤭
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Is there a technical reason why we can't use a waiting room to loosen the association of IP addresses and npubs? Like, the IP address gets stripped once it arrives at the relay into the waiting room, and the relay processes the events thereafter?
Or is that really stupid??
any server (reverse-proxy, relay, web, ...) will GET exit IP of any host trying to talk. retain or not or handover is policy matter. some countries require by law to keep log for when needed situtation. just like ISP n Telco SIM must do KYC nowadays. only whether relay forward orgin-IP or association IP to others can be addressed as above.
Well, that would help, at least, as someone could read and write over a particular relay and then only the relay IP addresse would be forwarded.
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Are you talking about splitting web socket implementation from relay implementation? Subscription handling is quite coupled to an IP now. But indeed an HTTP proxy could just strip the x-forwarded header.
that can way to do (until new law arrive )- but 1st relay will always get client exitIP
What if I self-host my relay? Then only I get my IP and can strip the data when forwarding.
yes - this is how proxy relays like "bostr" work but other relays logs incoming relays exitIP also.
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I'm just always trying to think about how we can construct Nostr to be slightly-more private over HTTP.
Natively, I mean, rather than using VPN or Tor, as most people aren't using them and won't use them.
The idea of gift wraps is nice for DMs. But not suitable for public speak.
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You mean, have bots that forward your notes?
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micropayments and short lived micro accounts and all relays are pay to write, which is also pay to proxy
the hard problem i bumped into is discovering the network and relays not needing to know what lives at the address the relaying message asks it to be sent to
this is why Tor and IPFS are both limited to around 8k nodes whereas bitcoin has over 20k
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Didn‘t I see some nostr people talk about ham radios? They could meshnet and you would only see the exit on IP. But the meshnet routing would be unsolved.
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Maybe we should buy an IP mixing satellite relay in space (or the international seas)
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Can I rent servers for cash or Bitcoin somewhere? Short-timed?
depends on how short timed... month is the minimum for cryptoho.st but they have bitcoinpayserver and you can pay with lightning and they don't require KYC
they are based out of suaceva, Romania, i presume that's an industrial suburb area near Cluj Napoca or Sibiu or something (based on what GEOIP shows me on the map)
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Final thought: yeah, onion routing
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The header doesn't matter, unless the proxy is masquerading, which you can't trust, it's the TCP header that unavoidably reveals the source
The only way out is via onion routing
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Spam
Pseudonymity fixes this problem, as does onion routed AMP LN payments
Something that would offend the monaros too... On chain payments are expensive and slow, and can't carry session keys
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The problem is that the client doesn't trust the relay. If you are the relay, and you are an evil relay, you probably aren't going to be stripping off any IP addresses. We need a solution that proves to a client that they aren't exposing their IP address to a relay.
But of course the way to do this is to use a VPN or tor.
If tor is totally unusable than we need to make a new tor. That sounds like a huge project, so I'll bow out and leave it to the rest of you.
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