Nostr Web Client

The images that are separated out into the "Pictures" tab are the ones that users posted as a kind 20 image, such as on Olas, rather than as a kind 1. Most Nostr clients only show kind 1 notes in the main feed, and Jumble has followed suit.

Many clients have no feed for kind 20 notes at all, as not all clients are expected to support all note kinds. Personally, I prefer how Jumble handles kind 20 over other clients, like Amethyst. Separate feeds for different note kinds is appropriate, one way or the other, though.

Cody 8mo ago

I’ve noticed that having both kind 1 and kind 20 notes coexisting can confuse many users. They might wonder why some notes appear in the 'Pictures' tab but not in the 'Notes' tab, especially since, in traditional apps, the 'Pictures' or 'Media' tab is usually just a subset of the 'Notes' tab. They might also be unaware that if they post a kind 20 note, others won’t be able to see their content on many clients.

If the quality of kind 20 content does indeed turn out to be higher than that of kind 1 in the future, I’ll create a separate app for it and further optimize it.

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Discussion

Dikaios1517 8mo ago

I think this is something that can be solved in client UX. For instance, in Amethyst, you can't add a kind 20 from the home feed. You have to go to the media feed, and vice versa. This makes it very clear that you are posting to a different feed.

When Olas first came out, I remember handling a lot of questions in the AskNostr hashtag about why the images they posted there weren't showing up in the main feed on other clients, but that died down within a couple weeks and I haven't seen similar questions in some time. That is also largely due to many major clients adding separate feeds for kind 20 that didn't exist at the time.

Cody 8mo ago

For regular users coming from platforms like X or Instagram, it's hard to grasp. It's difficult to explain why there are two different event kinds, why kind 20 doesn't show up on some clients, why it's placed in a separate tab on others, or even why notes posted in different feeds are considered different kinds of event

The reason there hasn't been much discussion about the issues with kind 20, in my opinion, is simply because its popularity has decreased. I quickly browsed through some big relays' kind 20 notes, and they are pretty scarce, with most of them looking like content posted by bots.

Dikaios1517 8mo ago

Someone coming from Instagram should have no trouble understanding why their posts to Instagram didn't show up on X, and someone coming from X should have no trouble understanding why their posts on X don't show up on Instagram. The same should translate to Nostr and understanding why posts to Olas, which is an Instagram ripoff, don't show up on "Twitter clone" clients.

It should further blow their minds when they learn that some clients can display both.

It doesn't, because users assume Nostr is like a platform, and that all clients on that platform should display all content the platform supports.

That said, I am warming up to the idea that kind 20 is superfluous, and we should just use hashtags to differentiate between memes, photography, and other forms of image-based media. There IS a distinction between kind 1 notes and kind 20, but it is small enough that maybe a separate kind isn't justified.

Kind 1 is a microblogging note that MAY contain image links, and kind 1 clients may or may not render those links as the images they link to, though most do.

Kind 20 is a picture and will ALWAYS contain an image link that supporting clients are expected to render. It MAY also contain a caption.

So, they are definitely different in how they function, but I agree that it can be confusing and kind 1 can fulfill the function of kind 20 and be pulled into a separate image feed if desired. Eh... I'd probably be fine with doing away with it after all.

Cody 8mo ago

Yes, exactly. When a client supports both kind 1 and kind 20, it can easily confuse users, and it's hard to handle because, from their perspective, the difference between the two isn't that significant.

As of now, I don't see the need for adding a new type to distinguish image-based notes. I also don't understand why Olas is doing it this way, it could easily achieve the same result with a special tag, like ["c", "image"]

Dikaios1517 8mo ago

It might be the temptation for everything to have a category, and kind 1 are called "short TEXT notes" on the NIPs repo, or as a "simple plaintext note." in NIP-10 specifically. Neither of those suggest that images belong within the umbrella of kind 1. Clients aren't even required to render image links in kind 1 notes.

Cody 8mo ago

Yeah, it's totally fine for clients not to render image links in kind 1 notes, right?

Dikaios1517 8mo ago

Absolutely! Voyage does this and works great!

The same would not be said about kind 20, though. If clients support it, they are expected to render the images.

Mystique Luna 8mo ago

oh, that is why I no longer see the picture tab for posting?

Cody 8mo ago

Haha, Jumble is gradually phasing out support for kind 20

Garbage nsec 8mo ago

love to hear it!