I know this is an old topic now, but I thought it would be useful to record my opinion on it somewhere.

For those who never understood the anti-anti-covid-vaccine position, this was the gist of their arguments. This is not my position. This is me "steel-manning" their argument the best I can.

1. The modern medical establishment is trustworthy and it's collective opinion should be considered more correct than any individual doctor, and especially more correct than any non-doctor, despite not being perfect. You can't do your own research and expect to do better than people who have dedicated their lives to the topic.

2. As such, when they say a vaccine is safe and effective, and that it is crucial that everybody take it in order to stop a pandemic, you should take it.

3. Those that didn't take it:

a. Caused the pandemic to rage on, rather than fade out.

b. Killed grandma

c. Aded more burden to ER staff by clogging ERs when they could have prevented their illness.

4. We care about your freedom, but are pissed off that you are using your freedom to harm all of the rest of us.

5. Therefore we find ourselves justified in:

a. Being mean to you

b. Terminating voluntary relationships (such as your job)

c. Disallowing voluntary engagements (such as entering our restaurant)

d. Shaming you and ostracizing you

e. Demonitizing your YouTube channels, and kicking your posts off of social media

6. Nothing that you lost in (5) was your right. Your rights were respected. You refused, and we exercised our rights against you in punishment.

I've always thought these arguments were valid. But I never found them to be sound. I think it is possible for a really bad pandemic to arise, and a very safe and effective cure to be available, and for these argument to be both valid and sound. But not this pandemic and not this vaccine. And I think by now, even most anti-anti-covid-vaxxers have belatedly come to that same conclusion. Because they all got sick too.

In particular, the modern medical establishment is not trustworthy. It's collective opinion should not be presumed to be more correct than any individual opinion. It is corrupt. You need to find experts that are trustworthy and trust them, not the collective opinion. Some good vaccine experts said at the beginning that "vaccinating into a pandemic" would not work because they virus would mutate faster than a vaccine could be deployed. They were right. Being proven correct in the end is a good hint as to who you should listen to. This same logic applies to other domains (e.g. listen to Alan Dershowitz on legal matters, not Lawrence Tribe). The vaccine wasn't clearly safe, even if it had harmed nobody, because it was too new and skipped a lot of typical tests, so that was clearly a lie. But now we have more data into precisely how it was unsafe and how many people suffered (about 1 in 45 had elevated troponin-I levels post-shot).

I got the shot when it was made availalbe in NZ. By the time boosters came around, I was skeptical but did some calculations based on the most recent studies at the time and decided I was a borderline case being in my 50s with several comorbidities, so I got the first boosters. After that, when more data came out, I decided I probably should not have gotten the boosters and I have not had any more shots. At this point I don't think anybody (even elderly people with comorbidities) should use the older COVID vaccine which is completely useless against new variants.

future ur grandson/daughter will be micro-CHIPPed by law within 24hrs of born - at least in most of big countries. removing chip will deny all gov n ID services

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Remember when that used to sound far away?

It really makes you think about what’s “legal” to deny vs what’s practical.

“Oh you supported X, no bank account for you”

Not a legal right but please try to conduct commerce.

In the old days it was always legal to deny service. Blacks in America could not stay at hotels because every hotel owner logically thought "most of my customers are white and some of them probably don't want to be around blacks. So I'll make more money if I just stick to whites." This was why protected classes became a thing. But the old ways were that banks could deny you, hotels could deny you, people could openly discriminate for any reason they wanted to, and people knew what they owned by right, and what they were grateful for. Athiests were often discriminated against too.

I find it interesting how many people who have experienced discrimination for the first time in the last 5 or so years via cancel culture or vaccine mandates suddenly argue against it as if they have a right to not be discrimated against, even though many of them took the other side when it wasn't them being discriminated against. I'm not saying you are one of them.

And I take no firm side on the issue of discrimination, but I lean towards allowing it across the board because I lean towards respecting individual freedom. I say that even though I hate cancel culture and think that it is a cultural sickness.

I get what you’re saying.

My only point was that there seems to be a vulnerability with what can be legally denied and how dependent people are on that.

100 years ago you could probably get away with not having a bank account more than now. Never made that a good thing, just a more manageable thing (I’m sure this would be a major hurdle for a business even back then).

If I had a major take away from covid- one of them would be that I would avoid making common cause with discriminatory people while trying to uphold some finer point of freedom.

You seem like a person who tries to go by logic so let me outline a principle I heard that changed my thought process.

It's the concept of negative liberty vs positive liberty. Freedom from vs freedom to.

"Freedom from" is not having some one coerce you. Don't tread on me

"Freedom to" is expanding one's capabilities- for example, no human has a natural ability to fly- but today this is something society works together to provide freedom of movement.

To me the person who discriminates reduces human autonomy by curtailing another person's freedom to.

As you have observed the vast majority of people who engage in such behaviors do not care at all about freedom-its entirely selfish and not in good faith. "Cancel culture" is a "fafo" situation that many people had coming.

if law tell u register you npub n bitcoin addr ?

just like law tells get birth certificate, biometric passport , chip implanted at birth

Q how many abide or comply or revolt or leave

country by country state by state district by district