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Bitcoin does live up to the privacy outlined in the white paper but because of KYC and chainalysis privacy becomes hindered.

I’m not trying to convince anyone to use Monero over bitcoin I just see it as a tool. It is easy and cheap to do atomic swaps in and out of Monero. I have also used liquid and lightning and have used whirlpool in the past before it got shut down. Mixing is slow and expensive, Liquid is a federated side chain.

Privacy is a spectrum and people will do what they see fit based on their own preferences and perceived risk.

Zach⚡️ 1y ago 💬 2

Exactly. I wouldn't give a shit about people who like to use monero if it wasn't for accounts constantly shilling it and saying I'm not a real Bitcoiner because I "don't care about privacy".

They attack Bitcoin and then get confused and offended when I tell them they are shitcoiners and should HFSP. Any honest person values NGU, the monero cope is crazy.

If they really wanted privacy they would be building it on top of money the world is actually going to use, like the ECash guys are trying to do. Having to use a shitcoin with a whole different currency just to gain marginal transaction privacy is such a stupid model, doomed to fail.

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Discussion

mbl 1y ago 💬 1

I don't attack Bitcoin itself, I like Bitcoin, most precisely I liked it 10 years ago, and I don't value NGU on a tool created for freedom rather than HODL scheme, Bitcoin was to be used, not held. That's a mess. It's not digital gold and can't be, never.

I don't want to use private L2 if the L1 is not private, this is a non sense, your entry point is compromised.

Btw, when you say to someone: You are a shitcoiner and having fun staying poor... what reaction do you expect ?

2Pac 1y ago 💬 1

Ok says the guy up 105x on any of his 10 year old bitcoin haha

mbl 1y ago 💬 1

I don't care about NGU, because for me Bitcoin is a tool, and Monero is just a better tool. That's it, nothing else. You know what, I lost them ^^

Honestly, I see value in utility, I don't see Bitcoin to be useful, I remember 10 years ago yeah on the DarkNet people accepted Bitcoin (there was no altcoin or close to be) and it was cool, but now they accept Monero, I mean it's not something I can't ignore, privacy should not be an option, it's very important, how do you want to have freedom and free speech without financial privacy ?

2Pac 1y ago 💬 1

But you also need financial sovereignty to have freedom. If you are broke using Monero are you free? You are more likely to achieve financial sovereignty through bitcoin than Monero. But if your are already there maybe you don’t need to worry about purchasing power you only care about privacy.

mbl 1y ago 💬 1

sovereignty doesn't mean having a lot of money.

Sovereignty means you are the captain about yourself, you and only decide for yourself. You can have 1 millions dollars without sovereignty but 1 dollars with sovereignty, it's about control.

Like it will happen in Denmark by 2026, there will be unrealized capital gain tax, that means if you have KYC bitcoin and they know your actual profit, you will be taxed on it. You will probably be forced to sell some bitcoin so, resulting in a loss of sovereignty. You are fucked because it's linked to you. These taxation will probably become the norm in all countries over time.

Having precious metals or Monero is fine because it's not traceable, you can spend it without tax and you can say you lost them too, you know the boating accident ^^

2Pac 1y ago 💬 1

I’d argue you’re highest level of freedom is achieved when you have enough resources you no longer need to work as your time is truest the most precious resource and achieving financial sovereignty can not be achieved if you have to clock into a job you hate and never be able to afford to retire.

mbl 1y ago 💬 1

I understand what you are saying, but having a lot of money on a place where it can be robbed by bank or government is not safe, it's not sovereign because you don't have control on it. It's an illusion, and you are in golden cage. They can kick you out as will.

2Pac 1y ago 💬 1

I think you are overstating things a bit and assuming worst case scenario is inevitable. Even with Denmark you have until 2026 to figure your shit out. And for every Denmark there will be a UAE or friendly jurisdiction. It’s not all doomsday.

mbl 1y ago

I hope you have right 🫡

Saberhagen The Nameless 1y ago

While I see your perspective it's already been tried. All tech used on Monero was already proposed and rejected by Bitcoin. Ecash doesn't remove trusted third parties. Even Calle, the creator of Cashu, says ecash is not a replacment for Monero.