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MAHDOOD

How so?

Snotklap 6mo ago

We haven’t conquered nature... it still pulls every string.

We eat, we fight, we procreate, we age, we die... just like any animal.

We still obey hunger, sex, fear, and death.

A heatwave kills thousands. A tremor topples buildings.

A flood submerges cities. A drought starves millions.

A hurricane flattens coastal towns.

And no matter how rich, powerful, or intelligent... we all rot, wrinkle, and die.

We are not a kingdom within a kingdom.

We are not above nature... we are of it, ruled by it, and returned to it.

Nature rules us by instinct...

from within, and through every breath, hunger, wound, and urge.

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Discussion

MAHDOOD 6mo ago

That’s not what I meant when I said we’ve conquered nature. I just meant that we have found ways to survive and navigate around the threats of nature for the most part. We have food year round, adequate heating in the cold, cooling in the summer. Sure some people die from starvation and natural disasters but these aren’t the largest threats to humanity. The largest threats to humanity are other humans. This is a massive shift imo. Humans used to fear dying from droughts or the harsh elements. Now we fear dying from other humans.

Snotklap 6mo ago

The fact that humans now kill each other more than nature kills us directly doesn’t prove we’ve escaped it.

It proves that nature now uses us to do its killing.

Nature still rules us... from within.

We haven’t escaped the law of the jungle.

We’ve just moved the jungle inside the city walls.

As Werner Herzog said, “nature is a harmony of overwhelming and collective murder.”

And we are part of that symphony. Human violence is not a failure of nature, but a function of it... nature doesn’t care who dies, only that something dies.

https://youtu.be/zLZYW9bF50A

Snotklap 6mo ago

And worst of all?

We don’t even have free will.

What we call “choice” is just instinct in disguise.

MAHDOOD 6mo ago

Idk about that. I can still choose actions that go against instinct.

Snotklap 6mo ago

When you say you’re choosing, you’re simply enacting the result of countless prior causes... your biology, your environment, your past experiences, your chemistry. You are not the captain of the ship... you are merely a passenger on the voyage. You think you’ve acted against instinct? You’ve only obeyed a deeper one.

MAHDOOD 6mo ago

If that was true, wouldn’t more people act similarly? Why do some continue to vote and waste their time on things that yield little results. While others go find a different solution.

Snotklap 6mo ago

If free will were real, we’d expect wild, unpredictable divergence.

But what do we see?

Masses behaving the same, generation after generation... voting for the same hollow promises, defending the same dying systems, living the same scripts and calling it tradition.

They don’t choose freely... they inherit patterns. They mimic, conform, repeat and call it culture.

A few break the mold, yes... but not because they are “free.” Even rebellion has its causes.

So ironically, the sameness of the crowd is not proof against determinism... it’s evidence for it.

MAHDOOD 6mo ago

But the fact that some humans break out of the crowd has to mean something don’t you think? Are you telling me that your behavior is based on instinct? Using nostr as an anon, stacking sats, and going against the status quo is not your free will?

Snotklap 6mo ago

You’re assuming rebellion = freedom. But even rebellion has its roots.

Some are conditioned to obey. Others are conditioned to question.

The drive to stand apart, to stack sats, to seek truth anonymously... it too has causes: temperament, upbringing, trauma, books, chance, even brain chemistry.

You didn’t choose your nature. You didn’t choose your environment.

You didn’t choose to become the kind of person who questions.

The urge to break free is just another instinct.

So yes, I go against the herd. But not because I’m “free.” My behavior and thinking were shaped by childhood trauma caused by religion, control and narcissism.

People like Larken Rose, Nietzsche, Schopenhauer, Martin Butler, and others shaped my path.

I didn’t choose that path freely. I was thrown onto it.

MAHDOOD 6mo ago

I didn’t say freedom. I said free will. It’s easier to conform and that’s what most of the masses do. So if it’s instinctual to conform, then non conformity wouldn’t be instinctual right?

Snotklap 6mo ago

Not necessarily.

Conformity and nonconformity are both driven by instinct... just different instincts.

For some, safety and belonging dominate. For others, truth, rebellion, or distrust of authority take over.

One person fears exclusion, another fears submission. Both responses are conditioned. Neither requires free will.

Nonconformity feels like a choice... but it’s often just the result of different wiring, different wounds, different causes.

The desire to break from the crowd isn’t proof of freedom... it’s proof that your internal compass points somewhere else, and you didn’t install that compass yourself.

MAHDOOD 6mo ago

Interesting perspectives

Snotklap 6mo ago

Yes, I’ll leave you with this. You might find it interesting:

The idea of free will was born out of religious necessity. Early religious institutions needed a framework to justify moral responsibility, sin, and punishment.

If people were truly free to choose good or evil, then it made sense to blame, punish, and condemn those who disobeyed divine law.

Without free will, hell makes no sense... how do you punish someone for doing what they were always going to do?

So the doctrine of free will became a tool of control:

- It made people feel guilty for natural desires.

- It justified obedience and submission.

- It gave priests and rulers moral high ground.

Even after the fall of religion, this belief lingered in secular culture because it flatters the ego. It says: “You are in control. You are responsible. You are the captain of your soul.” It feels empowering... but it’s a myth inherited from a religious system built to exploit guilt.

MAHDOOD 6mo ago

I would add that free will and predestination are contradictory as well. How can you have free will if god already planned everything and knows what you will do? Makes no sense

MAHDOOD 6mo ago

I get what you’re saying. My definition of nature is different from yours though.