Yeah it sounds so dumb … they keep taunting Russia but get energy from them… like … w0t?!
Discussion
I agree with not allowing Ukraine to join NATO, but this idea that NATO should be dissolved is a ridiculous, pro-Putin talking point. NATO is the single most successful military alliance in modern history. It was created to oppose Russian expansion, and it has been extremely successful in maintaining that goal. The idea that it's not necessary is utter nonsense that only serves Putin's desires. There's a reason why his primary behavior has been in service of weakening NATO, and spreading propaganda aimed at changing public sentiment about the alliance. Without NATO, Putin will invade one European nation after another as he works to achieve his goal of reconstituting the Soviet Union, and expanding into Europe. NATO is the essential push back on Putin's agenda, and they have been widely successful in containing him, and preventing war throughout Europe. Putin is the only one who benefits from the dissolution of NATO.
NATO is fine, but don’t expand it.
I'm fine with not expanding it. I'm not in a position to see all the relevant facts, but from my standpoint I think it's fine as is.
Please stop staying “pro-Putin”. Either a policy is serving our interests or not. Dissolving NATO would not serve our interests or those of our allies. Calling something pro-Putin automatically creates a line in the sand. But I say, some lines can be crossed a little as long as those on opposing ends are intact.
In the context of NATO and Russian expansion, I think it's an appropriate phrasing. It refers to his agenda to reconstitute the Soviet Union and expand into Europe. I think some people have forgotten that Russia under Putin's leadership is distinctly anti-American, and he is firmly our enemy. After the fall of the Soviet Union, there was a period when relations between the US and Russia were more cooperative as democracy and the trappings of life in the west were imported into Russia. But Russia largely returned to being an enemy of the United States once Putin took over and began working towards his anti-American, anti-democratic goals. We have to acknowledge the fact that he is not our friend, but our enemy, and his agenda is in direct conflict with the mandate of NATO including the US.
According to Putin he tried to get Russia into NATO but was denied.
Do you think he’s saying this just to garner sympathy? How can we disprove what he says is true? Has our own government been truthful with us? Need we look back at every CIA op in the past? How about WMDs? Snowden files?
Of course he was denied. NATO's guiding purpose is to block Russian expansion and aggression. Allowing Russia into NATO would be an absurd act that would give him access to NATO's strategic policies and plans against his country. Allowing him into NATO would preposterous.
lol what? Ally sanctioned expansion? What nonsense is this?
What are you talking about? Russia isn't our ally. And joining NATO would change his agenda. There's no way he believed he'd be accepted into an alliance that's primary mandate is to protect western nations from Russian expansion and aggression. The idea is an absurdity.
The whole point of letting them in would be to curb their expansion desires. Attacking allies is not exactly cool.
I think you're entirely misunderstanding the circumstances. Putin didn't apply to NATO in ernest, thinking he'd join up with the alliance that's all about opposing him, and suddenly end his ambitions to reconstitute the Soviet Union and continue pushing into Europe. His "attempt" to join NATO was an antagonistic lark. He knew there's no way in hell NATO would have risked giving him access to the alliance's strategic operations plans, and strategy documents outlining how NATO would respond to various actions taken by Russia. Do you really not see how ridiculous such a proposition is?
This is unbelievably naive.
I have the same questions.
They stopped buying (some) energy, and shut down their heavy industry to teach Russia a lesson (in self-harm). Now they're buying Russian fertilizer and steel as well as energy, and all at higher prices via middlemen :p
Russia recently became the world's 4th-largest economy, and all thanks to sanctions forcing them to invest and move up the value chain.
Another decade of self-harm and the European members of NATO will be dependant on Russia for food, pharmaceuticals and ammunition too.
But never handbags. Euroland makes the best mushroom-leather handbags in the world. Worthy partners for Biden, less so for Trump.
NATO in its current form makes no sense from an American tax payer perspective. Why isn’t Europe sending money to Ukraine but Americans are fronting majority of it from half way around the world? Why do EU countries contribute so little to NATO compared to the American tax payer if it’s so important? All that American tax payer money should be spent on American soil, not subsidizing EU countries.
Strategic investment my guess. You don’t want your allies succumbing to your enemy. Not sure how funding is decided on, probably based on % of GDP and US has highest GDP.
EU countries like Germany are buying energy from “the enemy” so the whole narrative makes no sense. NATO countries are supposed to contribute 2% of GDP to NATO which countries are not doing so the American tax payer has to supplement their lack of contribution while those countries purchase energy from the “enemy”. Makes zero sense. Seems like a scam.
Keeping your enemies dependent on you is a strategic advantage. Cutting a nation off will only force them to innovate and not be dependent on you.