Replying to Avatar Guy Swann

Is it just me, or does it seem like everyone is super reluctant to monetize services and relays on #Nostr?

If we can’t make these things sustainable then we will either lose them, or they will stay nothing more than a weird little corner of the internet with lots of hope but no chance of ever scaling.

I still haven’t seen the basic model of zap sharing tried by any major client or relay. But I DO see regularly comments about how expensive relays are. I mean it might not work, but can’t we TRY it?

I want to make the distinction here too that this doesn’t mean we are closing off the network, we are adding permissions to the protocol, this doesn’t suggest at all to used closed source code, we simply need the services necessary to keep this ecosystem robust, to be profitable and have the resources to thrive. If they aren’t, then NONE of this works. Economics is everything.

I know building features is more exciting. I know we all want to make everything that we can free, and I agree all of the *code* should be shared. However, I think there is a natural insecurity (and I say this because I have this problem personally) with charging a fair price, and fearing criticism or the ire of people who believe everything should be free (as in price) when we need things to be free (as in Liberty). They are not the same, and confusing the two could stifle, or drastically slow down, the insane potential of this place.

TL;DR We have GOT to divert some energy to thinking about how to make this ecosystem sustainable, or we will lose it.

(Disclaimer: this isn’t a judgement on whoever is thinking about this problem. It just *seems* like few are. If you are building in this way please share your ideas or what you are trying. I’m extremely interested)

What do you want to sell? People can literally run their own private relays for free or $5 a month. What can you provide that is cheaper than that?

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People still have to connect to your relay to get your feed. Hosting your own relay will literally never be meaningful competition for broader network relays as a service. For the simple reason that no one wants to run their own server. This has basically been a truism of the internet since forever. We could all just as easily say Google Drive and email will never be a viable service because everyone can run their own cloud storage and email server for relatively cheap. But that clearly doesn’t happen that way.

Why do you think centralized relays are better than 10000’s of personal ones? A relay doesn’t need to connect to everyone for it to scale. Just as the lightning protocol, you don’t need to run 1000’s of channels for it to be useful. Are you really arguing for a centralized Google Drive on decentralized Nostr? Something is not right with that 😆

I don’t think you read anything I wrote if that’s what you think my argument is.

Think again 😁

Then you failed to understand my point. Or are just strawmanning a ridiculous version of it to get some sort of “win” by making it look like I’m trying to suggest something retarded.

Either way, it kinda feels like you aren’t interested in a real conversation but instead really want this to be a Twitter pissing contest, which I have no interest in.

If I’m wrong on that assumption then that’s my bad. But I don’t see this likely going anywhere positive. So I’ll just say I hope you have a good day. 👍🏻😁

Lol. I’m not doing anything like that. Stop being so defensive. Point is you cannot create a centralized marketplace like Amazon on Nostr, it is too expensive and no one is going to pay $50 to join 10 relays to see the same stuff being sold. Peace 😁

Don’t think I’m being defensive but maybe I am. Just not interested in countering a position I don’t hold and I felt I was pretty clear.

For example: “Point is you cannot create a centralized marketplace like Amazon on Nostr”

I completely agree, but I never suggested this in even a remote sense and I don’t quite know how you pulled that from any of my notes. Glad there’s no hard feelings though and hope you enjoy the thread. Some great ideas being shared, imo (which was the point 😉)

Pas Jeff s'il vous plaît de plus il est officiellement sur nostr son outil Amazon tout comme celui de Larry est énorme financièrement mais enfreint plus Google Méta les données personnelles malgré toutes les règles RGPD DSA MICA ...ils sont très fort sur aws et Ishare

Merci Guy et à tous je reviendrai dessus demain . Bon soir et bonne après-midi chez vous

De manière ouverte en termes d'échanges d'idées les gars c'est qui fait nostr

They already say it’s too complicated because of keys and relays. Imagine asking people to also run their own relay. Not to mention the security nightmare of people who don’t know what they’re doing running publicly accessible internet services.

Eux même ils ont commencé à faire payer le cloud qui fut gratuit depuis un certain temps .. allez jeter un coup dans les nouvelles conditions d'utilisations de nos 5 grands de la Tech y compris la branche Ishare de Larry ...Depuis Obama et la dernière crise notre Monde a trop changé vers un autre où les États et dirigeants n'ont plus rien à dire en termes d'orientation...🙍