Nostr

i think the anti-BIP300 arguments get too convoluted (51% attacks, MEV?, creates miner centralisation).

keep it simple- the game theory of it fails. economically, miners are overwhelmingly incentivised to steal. i believe any meaningful amount of drivechain TVL will be stolen by miners voting for a WT^ transaction that splits the escrow by pool % hashpower- no offchain coordination required.

why turn bitcoin into a laughing stock?

Cyber Seagull 2y ago

This falls into the "I don't want to use it" category.

No one is forcing you to buy in to a sidechain.

Nothing changes for you with DC.

If someone thinks the risk of a miner stealing is worth the risk for features they like, that is part of their risk profile.

If bitcoin is about freedom, but not this opt-in minimal change that increases freedom, why be against it.

It's the equivalent of telling your neighbors they can't enjoy chocolate icecream because the store they bought it at my steal it, and just as unlikely once you understand the "miners can steal meme " is baseless.

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doot 2y ago

explain why you think miners stealing is baseless- it’s become a meme phrase for you guys/paul but you never elaborate outside of UASF (in which case it is def not baseless).

i’m not saying others shouldn’t use it, im saying it does not work. my bet is that immediately upon activation it will be used to create a replacement for WBTC, will gain massive locked-in TVL over a short period before being rugged by miners (along with any other escrows).

it will turn so many people off bitcoin, all for something that was never gonna work in the first place.

j 2y ago

people already put their coins in much more ruggable places

these places already affinity scam so when they rug the people affected get turned off bitcoin

not adding drivechains doesn't stop this

and if they work (I think they will), then we have a better option than wbtc

doot 2y ago

the legal ramifications for DAO members alone makes WBTC objectively more rational than BIP300, because BIP300 basically has nothing

j 2y ago

I guess it depends on your threat model. If a US federal court deamnded that dao members or whatever hand over the coins in some federation it would probably be pretty easy to get them, legal protections come at a pretty big price.

doot 2y ago

what i’m trying to say isn’t that WBTC is good, im saying that BIP300 does nothing to stop miners from stealing

j 2y ago

Yeah, I think you're wrong about that but there is only one way to find out.

Cyber Seagull 2y ago

How do the miners rug pull. Please explain. Not in generalities.

I want specifics. Technicals. Based on Bip300

I will remind you, the burden is on you, since you made the claim.

doot 2y ago

i believe any meaningful amount of drivechain TVL will be stolen by miners voting for a WT^ transaction that splits the escrow by pool % hashpower- no offchain coordination required.

Cyber Seagull 2y ago

So miners split a bundled hash between several pools and.....

I asked within bip300 . Withdraws are live modifiable bundled hashes with public observation for 13000+ POLL votes.

These votes act as confs not history selection fyi.

doot 2y ago

this changes nothing i said

Cyber Seagull 2y ago

How do miners split the withdraw transaction of a sidechain ? (bundled transaction hash)

And if they do, how does this steal funds ?

doot 2y ago

the outputs are to pools and the amounts are by % hashrate controlled by each pool (as that should be the proportion of votes they contribute)

Cyber Seagull 2y ago

Amounts of what ?

Cyber Seagull 2y ago

Votes for what?

Cyber Seagull 2y ago

Also, TVL is a shitcoin-crypto term.

Bitcoin and drivechain do not promise to lock away the value of your bitcoin.

A DC hash escrow is a promise to hold a UTXO in a common fund that is exchageable for x or y amount of bitcoin<->token. The value of either is not locked. It's more helpful to think about it as an atomic swap rather than shitcoin staking.

doot 2y ago

i mean TVL as in the bitcoin within the escrow

Cyber Seagull 2y ago

And by escrow you mean the CTIP as described in the Bip right ?

If not then you are not talking about bip300 and drivechain.

The ctip is an aggregation of all the UTXO's sent to the sidechain and held for future withdraws. Miners have nothing to do with it, its state or amount.

If miners can split and steal from it, they can seal from any other bitcoiner.

doot 2y ago

words words words words.

you know exactly what i mean i’m not going transcribe this into BIP300 terms

Cyber Seagull 2y ago

No. I HAVE NO IDEA WHAT THE FUCK YOU ARE TALKING ABOUT.

I know what i am talking about.

Now i know you don't know what you are talking about.

We now know you don't know what you are takking about.

Cyber Seagull 2y ago

Words are important.

You are approaching bip300 with the wrong words, so you don't understand it.

Try describing pasta using eskimo words for snow.

₿lack Swan 2y ago

There is a huge demand for derivatives at Deutsche Bank too. Should we enable that on Bitcoin too?

Just because you can do something, doesn’t mean you should.

Cyber Seagull 2y ago

Yes, if it does not risk your money. I am not a dictator like you, who knows what's best for everyone. Let each user decide what to do with their bitcoin. Communist