Exactly government and capitalism aren't connected, and if they are it's no longer capitalism it's corporatism or some other bastardization
Discussion
I would suggest they ARE intimately connected - but they shouldn't be.
Can we use "nonstate Capitalism" as a clearer term for communication?
I haven't heard the term "non-state capitalism" before. What do you mean by it? What does one gain from giving away the original precise definition of capitalism? 🤔
I don't know if I've read the term "nonstate Capitalism", or coined it myself, but I think its a succinct way to express to normies that we are not talking about the (statist-, crony-) hyphenated "Capitalism" they experience in real life.
Can you link me to this original precise definition of Capitalism? I understood it to have been originally defined as the negation of Socialism. Which would be far from precise...
Ah good point. Instead of fighting for a precise definition as it's written in economic terms, you're saying, "hey, I don't mean what you think I mean" with a new term. Interesting. I'll have to think about that.
My understanding on where the term capitalism came from agrees with yours. It was first coined as the opposite of the communist paradise.
They aren't connected, Capitalism has never meant government, it's not government. It's a economic situation.
no. an economic system basis has nothing to do with government. that like growing my own watermelon amd saying hey, this "nonstate watermelon is great!"
me growing a melon has nothing to do with the state in thenfirst place, hence it makes no sense.
Is your watermelon certified? Does it meet various opaque standards? Are you part of the state-sponsored cartel allowed to sell watermelons? Do you have the required KYC fiat payment system to make sure tax is paid and records are kept?
What most people experience as Capitalism in real life has very little to do with nonstate "ideal" Capitalism.
Especially in the non-US nations of the West.
So when you say to a normie "but Capitalism doesn't XYZ", you're talking about something completely different to what they're talking about.
And what are words for, if not to communicate?
Literally non of those things are required for my watermelon to be grown and eaten by my family. Ever.
You seem to be confusing regulating trade and industry as the same thing as the backend product. It isn't. I don't ask the state for permission to feed my family.
Capitalism is capitalism. There is no 'ideal' capitalism, nor non-state capitalism. That isn't a thing.
I don't particularly care if a 'normie' thinks capitalism is. It doesn't change what it is.
I suppose this is similar to the current gender and sex conversations.
Just because you cut your dick off, doesn't make you a woman.
LOL
If you don't care what normies think is Capitalism, then there's no dispute. I like nostr:npub16llpfttm85ltrqc5ggyu5snfq38x6vwhanyrhrddpn43ylt3wdxqa99rf5's definition as much as you do. The Nostr/Bitcoiner/AnCap definition
For those of us who have to interact with/persuade normies, we need to know what they mean when they use the word Capitalism.
Wiktionary's definition, unfortunately, is a much better guide to that.
Correct, I believe it is immoral to try and compel speech. They are free to call it or think it is whatever they want.
That doesn't change the actual meaning and definition of said economic system.
Why would you have to persuade normies on what capitalism is? I guess we run in different circles, lol. I can't say I have ever had someone dispute what capitalism is. The dispute ALWAYS is that they think the west, in particular UK and US, is a capitalist system.
That is their mistake, not what the system actually is.
Anyway, nice chat, peace.